How Shallan attracted Pattern

[makromag he/him]

Hi guys,

 

I was re-hearing the Words of Radiance and I noticed something odd that made me think. I only have the audiobook, so I cannot produce the quotes, but Pattern said he was attracted to Shallan's lies. At first I assumed those were the lies she told herself about her mother, but that cannot be possible: Her mother wanted to kill her precisely because of Shallan's abilities and she was killed by Shallan using Pattern in shardblade-form.

 

Now I am wondering, what lies Shallan could possibly have been making that were so "powerful" that they attracted one of very few, if not even the only, Cryptic that has come to bond with a human?

 

The way Shallan spoke to Hoid implies her childhood was fairly uneventful until Pattern came and her mother tried to kill her. Or is that maybe another lie she has told herself? Perhaps something traumatic happened even before that? She had to have been broken at some point, or else she would not have been able to form a bond with pattern and she must have been bonded to him for some time, since she progressed at least far enough to use him as a shardblade.

 

I think there is even more crazy stuff in Shallan's childhood. What do you think? 

[Aleksiel]

I don't remember when Patter has claimed to have been attracted by her lies, however I don't think that's particularly helpful information. He considers figures of speech and metaphors to be lies. For all we know, she could have been drawing pictures of her ideal life and Pattern could have thought of it as a 'good lie'. 

 

All we know known of pre-bond Shallan is that her father was actually a caring person. Considering how her mother tried to kill her later on, she might have been the source of Shallan's brokenness by may be being cold and unmotherly towards her daughter, which is something that would break any child's heart, so why not the soul. Shallan's parents could have quarreled a lot. Such trivial (compared to other painful experiences) problems might have been enough to hurt her deep enough to make her withdraw into drawing, creating a better dream-like version of her family, which Pattern would likely call a lie.

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

Yeah, I mentioned this in my reaction post as well. How did we go through all of Shallan's backstory and not find out how she attracted a spren before any other Surgebinder we have seen? As a child too! I thought maybe her "lies" were drawings. Creative drawings. When Pattern uses the word "lies" he doesn't use it the same way we do. Just like he doesn't understand the concept of food. I'm sure that very soon in the next book we will see Pattern's intelligence grow and he'll be able to better explain himself. Shallan is actually embracing him now, so it should happen fast.

[WitSpren he/him]

Hi guys,

 

I was re-hearing the Words of Radiance and I noticed something odd that made me think. I only have the audiobook, so I cannot produce the quotes, but Pattern said he was attracted to Shallan's lies. At first I assumed those were the lies she told herself about her mother, but that cannot be possible: Her mother wanted to kill her precisely because of Shallan's abilities and she was killed by Shallan using Pattern in shardblade-form.

 

Now I am wondering, what lies Shallan could possibly have been making that were so "powerful" that they attracted one of very few, if not even the only, Cryptic that has come to bond with a human?

 

The way Shallan spoke to Hoid implies her childhood was fairly uneventful until Pattern came and her mother tried to kill her. Or is that maybe another lie she has told herself? Perhaps something traumatic happened even before that? She had to have been broken at some point, or else she would not have been able to form a bond with pattern and she must have been bonded to him for some time, since she progressed at least far enough to use him as a shardblade.

 

I think there is even more crazy stuff in Shallan's childhood. What do you think? 

This was significantly discussed in the  What was it that Broke Shallan?  Thread

 

 

The last comment it that her mother appeared to be more than a bit unstable even before she attacked Shallan with the knife, and was associated with one of the "groups" of the world.   There had to be more than that one incident with her mother.    A mother does not change overnight.     She was probably abusive prior - but that is a guess as we have not seen that yet.

 

 

 

You should read that thread.    

[Baine he/him]

How do we know that Shallan's Father was a kind, caring person before her mother tried to kill her? Everyone thought it was in character for Him to murder his wife and her mother in a fit of rage, although it did probably get a lot worse after the incident. Even after reading all of WoR, I find myself unable to sympathize for Shallan's abusive father.

[Delightful]

 

The way Shallan spoke to Hoid implies her childhood was fairly uneventful until Pattern came and her mother tried to kill her. Or is that maybe another lie she has told herself? Perhaps something traumatic happened even before that? She had to have been broken at some point, or else she would not have been able to form a bond with pattern and she must have been bonded to him for some time, since she progressed at least far enough to use him as a shardblade.

 

I think there is even more crazy stuff in Shallan's childhood. What do you think? 

I never considered that she might have been lying to herself about her childhood beforehand, which I find very interesting and mostly plausible. However, wouldn't Pattern have said something about it to her, since he was so insistent that she face the truth that she killed her mother?

Yeah, I mentioned this in my reaction post as well. How did we go through all of Shallan's backstory and not find out how she attracted a spren before any other Surgebinder we have seen? As a child too! I thought maybe her "lies" were drawings. Creative drawings. When Pattern uses the word "lies" he doesn't use it the same way we do. Just like he doesn't understand the concept of food. I'm sure that very soon in the next book we will see Pattern's intelligence grow and he'll be able to better explain himself. Shallan is actually embracing him now, so it should happen fast.

 

I don't think drawing and metaphors could have attracted Pattern, otherwise he could have been attracted to just about anyone. People use figurative speech constantly. Hopefully Pattern will explain himself soon! If there's anything I'm sure of, it's that we don't know nearly everything about Shallan yet. 

 

How do we know that Shallan's Father was a kind, caring person before her mother tried to kill her? Everyone thought it was in character for Him to murder his wife and her mother in a fit of rage, although it did probably get a lot worse after the incident. Even after reading all of WoR, I find myself unable to sympathize for Shallan's abusive father.

I don't have the exact quote but in one of the first few chapters, Shallan remembers days when he used to smile, thinking 'those days were rare now.' It's definitely implied that he was a loving father until the whole incident with her mother.

 

[Kasimir he/him]

Yeah, I mentioned this in my reaction post as well. How did we go through all of Shallan's backstory and not find out how she attracted a spren before any other Surgebinder we have seen? As a child too! I thought maybe her "lies" were drawings. Creative drawings. When Pattern uses the word "lies" he doesn't use it the same way we do. Just like he doesn't understand the concept of food. I'm sure that very soon in the next book we will see Pattern's intelligence grow and he'll be able to better explain himself. Shallan is actually embracing him now, so it should happen fast.

I'm not sure we have enough information to tell, but I'm with Bloodfalcon on this. There's a WoB somewhere that seems somewhat relevant:

 

Q: When does a person become a Surgebinder? Because Kaladin talks about when he was a child, about it being a familiar feeling, and Shallan obviously was younger. Or is it when they speak the Words?

A: The bond starts forming before the words are spoken, but if the words are never spoken that bond will eventually evaporate and get broken. But the bond will start forming before. Just like an emotion attracts a spren, acting in the way that the spren you would eventually bond will start drawing them toward you and that will start to create that bond.

I'd say off-hand that this doesn't look like the full story--we still have no way of filling in what exactly drew Pattern to Shallan, or what broke Shallan, but I think this gives us enough evidence to suggest that Shallan's creative tendencies (and I think we don't need to deal with the Primary Attributes theory to suggest this) drew Pattern. Granted, there are a lot of other potential creative candidates Pattern could have bonded, but for that, whether there was an element of luck involved or something else, I think we don't have enough information to tell. (This would go into the discussions on why the Kholins seem to be attracting a good number of Nahel spren.)

On Shallan's parents, I'm with Delightful on this.

 

“She is speaking to my father, and he is laughing. Laughing and holding her. We are all there, including Helaran. He never left. The people my mother knew . . . Dreder . . . never came to our home. Mother loves me. She teaches me philosophy, and she shows me how to draw.”

--WoR, Chapter 45, emphases mine.

I find it telling that Shallan's picture of the ideal life states that her mother loves her. She's never had that reaction with her father--she always indicates her father should be laughing, but it's her mother who ideally loves her. I think that suggests that Shallan's relationship with her mother probably wasn't good, even before her mother tried to kill her.

[kari-no-sugata]

If we can trust Pattern's words then Shallan was "broken" (or rather "cracked" from something that would break most people) before the first flashback we see - without that she wouldn't have been able to Surgebind at all and that scene could never have happend. Somehow "lies saved her". We can only speculate as to what happened - for example, maybe Shallan had a twin sister who died and Shallan started creating imaginary friends and started bonding with Pattern shortly afterwards. I can't see any hint of that example in the text but it's the sort of thing that could work, I think. Seems a bit "ordinary" though.

 

It's very difficult to guess what Shallan and her family were like before her mother died. I don't remember any comments from other family members hinting that Shallan's father effectively became a different person after her mother died. I can certainly understand the events "breaking" her father but I'd be quite surprised if he was Mr Nice Guy beforehand.

 

I guess we might have to wait until Shallan meets with her brothers again to delve deeper into her past... unfortunately.

 

[Chrono she/her]

With Shallan's Father, I could see him being very cold and uncaring to Shallan's siblings, but kind to Shallan. Or even, he could have been a great guy, but Shallan's mother going downhill could have caused him stress and angry outbursts that he tried to repress when Shallan was near. Note that after Shallan killed her mother, Lin either looks guiltily at Shallan or tries to stop his rages if she is nearby. 

 

I find it very significant that Shallan wanted her mother to love her in the imaginary dream she tells Hoid. For a child, simply not paying attention or favoring another sibling is a traumatizing thing. Shallan's mother could have favored her sons more than Shallan, or simply not taken interest in her daughter's life. This could be enough to draw Pattern.

[WitSpren he/him]

I'm not sure we have enough information to tell, but I'm with Bloodfalcon on this. There's a WoB somewhere that seems somewhat relevant:

 

I'd say off-hand that this doesn't look like the full story--we still have no way of filling in what exactly drew Pattern to Shallan, or what broke Shallan, but I think this gives us enough evidence to suggest that Shallan's creative tendencies (and I think we don't need to deal with the Primary Attributes theory to suggest this) drew Pattern. Granted, there are a lot of other potential creative candidates Pattern could have bonded, but for that, whether there was an element of luck involved or something else, I think we don't have enough information to tell. (This would go into the discussions on why the Kholins seem to be attracting a good number of Nahel spren.)

On Shallan's parents, I'm with Delightful on this.

 

“She is speaking to my father, and he is laughing. Laughing and holding her. We are all there, including Helaran. He never left. The people my mother knew . . . Dreder . . . never came to our home. Mother loves me. She teaches me philosophy, and she shows me how to draw.”

--WoR, Chapter 45, emphases mine.

 

I find it telling that Shallan's picture of the ideal life states that her mother loves her. She's never had that reaction with her father--she always indicates her father should be laughing, but it's her mother who ideally loves her. I think that suggests that Shallan's relationship with her mother probably wasn't good, even before her mother tried to kill her.

I agree.    We get a number on thought/statements that her father was "a loving person" before taking total blame her mother's death.     But there is never any mention of her mother's love and Shallan specifically thinks that everything got significantly worse about the time when Dreder showed up.    That was probably when her mother joined whichever group Dreder was with.     It also implies that her mother never taught her anything.     

 

Maybe Dreder was with the corrupted Skybreakers?     I think the other groups would have welcomed Shallan.

 

 

 

Is there a Mod that can combine this tread with the What was it that Broke Shallan? tread - they are identical except for the name.     Just two ways to say the same thing.   

Edited May 5, 2014 by WitSpren

[kari-no-sugata]

Has anyone else thought this: that maybe part of the reason that Shallan's father treated her with kid gloves compared to the rest is not because he loved her but because he feared her and what she could do. In an early flashback, Shallan does get the impression that her father would have preferred it if she had stayed mute.

 

I think it's likely he loved her to some degree (particularly early on) but also can't have failed to notice that his daughter killed two people with a Shardblade.