Aleksiel Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 You are right, however I was was thinking more in the lines of why not kill the voidspren instead of the poor soul it occupies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Ah I got you now. Well maybe that is what the Bondsmiths figure out how to do when it is alluded to that they found a way to stop the voidbringers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) Wouldn't a Shardblade not kill a voidspren, because they aren't/don't have souls, but are cognitive creatures? it would make more sense to kill the spren that caused the parshman to turn into voidbringers, otherwise it's like treating the symptom and not the cause. Or are spren in the spiritual realm as well? Spren are based on Spiritual ideals (though they're Cognitive creatures), so I wouldn't be surprised if each spren had some sort of Spiritual aspect that could be cut. The question is rather open on what would happen if you tried to cut a spren, though. I expect Nightblood will have no issues eating spren it touches, and Nightblood (probably) acts on the same principles as Shardblades, just... supercharged. Edited May 7, 2014 by Moogle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) Spren are based on Spiritual ideals (though they're Cognitive creatures), so I wouldn't be surprised if each spren had some sort of Spiritual aspect that could be cut. The question is rather open on what would happen if you tried to cut a spren, though. I expect Nightblood will have no issues eating spren it touches, and Nightblood (probably) acts on the same principles as Shardblades, just... supercharged. I don't think regular Blade would kill a spren, otherwise every time someone swung a Blade, they'd kill some spren. Syl didn't fear she'd hurt her follow windspren cousins in the Kal-Szeth battle. Edited May 7, 2014 by Aleksiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 I don't think regular Blade would kill a spren, otherwise every time someone swung a Blade, they'd kill some spren. Syl didn't fear she'd hurt her follow windspren cousins in the Kal-Szeth battle. This is a good point, though I'm not convinced Syl cares all that much about those sort of 'lesser' spren. They're more or less like bacteria to humans. Perhaps such spren instinctively move out of the way, or perhaps Syl can consciously choose not to cut things. People with Shardblades can choose to not have their Blades cut the ground, after all. It's all about intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Or may be lesser spren don't have a spiritual aspect, so a Blade can't kill them. If other spren like voidspren have a spiritual aspect a Blade can cut, are there some infinite number of them then? I can't imagine even a Shard being able to keep creating them forever and certainly not Odium, the Scrooge of the Shards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dihatimus Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 To paraphrase Syl, spren can be killed, sort of. kill it and something remains. Voidspren probably follow the same logic. Methinks it is probably very difficult to completely kill voidspren so that they cannot be revived like Syl was. I have unfounded suspicion though that there is a way to permanently kill spren that is not from a weapon and that we will see it happen. If Odium can destroy a shard, what is a spren to him? I like the idea of shardblades severing souls to take voidsprens toys away permanently. I think the use also comes into play because those rock creatures, you need an easy way to get past, well, the rock, but then what? Vital organs probably don't exist, as seen in the midnight essence. So what kills a thing that doesn't have vital organs or blood? I suspect that is why it cuts the soul. That part, at least, I am pretty sure has to do with the nature of the Shardblades - namely, the fact that they are (dead) spren. I may have missed your point, but living shardblades sever souls too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 That's why "dead" is in parenthesis - you read the sentence without it, but it's still true if you add it in. It's a weird figure of writing I am unreasonably fond of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dihatimus Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 I understand. I don't often use that technique. At least I think I don't. Well my other personalities might, I can't speak for all my voices. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Observations R Me Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 In the OP the reverse shadow thing is brought up. I find it interesting that during the prologue Jahsna(spelling? I don't have my book with me)'s shadow goes the oposite way as well. I may be misremembering, but I just thought I'd throw that out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 No, you're right. It has to do with the cognitive realm, maybe just a general "tell" that Cognitive shenanigans are happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 I wonder if anyone other than Jasnah is able to see it when her shadow goes bonkers. Other people with strong ties to the Cognitive might do so, but since it is a Cognitive thing, "normal" people might not see it at all. Then again, everyone are able to see the Amian reverse shadow. Also, if Elhokar is not in the process of bonding a Cryptic, and that they are merely watching him (assuming that it is Cryptics he sees), then wouldn't the shadow shenanigans imply that Ivory-spren are watching as well? Elhokar surely seems to be popular in the Cognitive Realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numb Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 I don't see why they would be observing Elhokar. He's king only in name and has no real power. There's nothing to really observe if they wanted to know what's going on in the Alethi camp or human side. Dalinar or one of his trusted generals would be far better to observe. If it's not about bonding than I don't see a reason for them to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 I am not saying that they are not watching Dalinar, Sadeas etc.. They might very well be, but very few are able to even see them. Elhokar could be - for some hitherto unknown reason - one of the only people able to notice them at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 I need to look up the quote, but I do remember Jasnah being nervous about people seeing her reverse shadow, and that someone did look at her strangely but the person was drunk or distracted and disregarded it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 She was nervous - concerned, - but nobody saw her. Some people passed her, but they didn't even glance at the shadow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 I assumed only Jasnah was able to see the shadow. Like how only Elhokar sees the spren in the mirrors or Shallan draws the Cryptics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) I checked Argent and you have me there, though in looking I noticed something else. The shadow also moved towards the stormlight lanterns when she was about to enter the shadesmar. Yes the cognitive deal about shadows and shadesmar make sense but maybe in Jasnah's case, it is just her spren drawn to the stormlight? edit: Please disregard, the distinction is mute given it could just be stated that since shadesmar is the reverse of the world, then the shadow would be draw to the stormlight lantern regardless. Sorry for wasting a post! Edited May 8, 2014 by P4thf1nd3r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 On the Stormform power level: I suspect this is partially a matter of numbers. Sure, armored Radiants do pretty well against them, but there are a lot of Stormform. Even the ones already created probably outnumbered the old Orders by at least ten to one, and most of them are inactive. Plus, a big chunk of them were occupied generating the Everstorm and they still were a huge problem for the Alethi army. Also, this was the first time most of the Stormform used their powers in combat, and they clearly had a lot of trouble controlling their lighting effectively. They could be a lot nastier with some practice, and the Everstorm song also shows they can combine their powers. Plus, I think the Plate itself provides evidence it's intended to fight Stormform. When Adolin sees a lightning blast, a portion of his visor turns opaque to block it out. That's clearly an intentional feature to protect the wearer's vision, implying it was a frequent problem. Radiant powers do produce a lot of light, but it doesn't seem like they leave blinding afterimages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 Plus, I think the Plate itself provides evidence it's intended to fight Stormform. When Adolin sees a lightning blast, a portion of his visor turns opaque to block it out. That's clearly an intentional feature to protect the wearer's vision, implying it was a frequent problem. Radiant powers do produce a lot of light, but it doesn't seem like they leave blinding afterimages. This alone is probably enough to convince me (if I weren't already convinced) that the stormforms are (one type of the) Voidbringers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) On the Stormform power level: I suspect this is partially a matter of numbers. Sure, armored Radiants do pretty well against them, but there are a lot of Stormform. Even the ones already created probably outnumbered the old Orders by at least ten to one, and most of them are inactive. Plus, a big chunk of them were occupied generating the Everstorm and they still were a huge problem for the Alethi army. Also, this was the first time most of the Stormform used their powers in combat, and they clearly had a lot of trouble controlling their lighting effectively. They could be a lot nastier with some practice, and the Everstorm song also shows they can combine their powers. Plus, I think the Plate itself provides evidence it's intended to fight Stormform. When Adolin sees a lightning blast, a portion of his visor turns opaque to block it out. That's clearly an intentional feature to protect the wearer's vision, implying it was a frequent problem. Radiant powers do produce a lot of light, but it doesn't seem like they leave blinding afterimages. There was also a scene I believe where Adolin got hit by a bolt (perhaps the second time? unless it happened once to Dalinar, and then to Adolin, I do recall there being two strikes though), and the armor absorbed the bolt. The stormform parshendi seemed confused, he smiled and then charged it. edit: found it! "Lightning flashed right at Adolin. The sound was incredible and the light. He stood in place, blinded. When it faded, he found himself completely unharmed. He looked down at the armor, which was vibrating softly- a hum that rattled his skin in a strangely comforting way. Nearby, another crack of lightning left a small group of Parshendi, but it didn't blind him. his helm- which as always was partially translucent from the inside - darkened in a jagged streak, perfectly overlaying the lightning." "By the old stories, the suit he wore had been created to fight these very monsters" Edited May 9, 2014 by P4thf1nd3r 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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