Kaladin's relationship

[FeatherWriter]

I disagree.    Kal, Shallan and Delinar all did significant "healing" before they figured out what was going on.

 

I really doubt that Renarin was at the point that he was conciously healing  or  could conciously "interpret" his visions.     At the dual point he clearly was not focusing on the benefits, but mostly on his " Voidbringer Curse".     Even from the Delinar POV at the very end, he just then accepts it.     It might be a day or so before that, but not much earlier. 

 

There is no reason he would have known. A one-time healing, for all Renarin knows, might be it; he's never had the opportunity to heal from something else in a battle situation, and we know even with the benefit of being on the outside looking in that Stormlight healing isn't infallible anyway. I don't think anyone could say that Renarin knew beyond the shadow of a doubt he would walk away. Having his eyesight healed >>> "I can walk away from any injury in a fight" is a /bit/ of a stretch. In the text, Renarin expects to die. I'm not sure how else to phrase this.

 

Yep, I'm with you guys. It's even possible that Renarin did not understand why his eyes were healing until afterwards when he accepted that he is a surgebinder. And, even if he did understand that it was Stormlight that was healing him, I think extrapolating from "this healed my eyesight" to "I would be able to recover from a Shardblade hit" is a stretch at best, and well... kind of unthinkable at worst. Even Kaladin, who was very experienced with using Stormlight to heal even grievous injuries, was shocked to realize that he could heal from Shardblade hits. The idea that Renarin would even guess that he might be capable of that seems farfetched to me.

[leinton]

By the same token, there is no need to inject such things into the story that add nothing to it and that there is no textual evidence to support it.      Quite the contrary, we have a multitude of Kal POVs.     Most with assorted men, but also a few with females.      The only ones that showed any "interest" were with Shallan.     A few of those POVs, near the end of WoR, showed a noticable amount of positive interest on Kal part.

 

I have a few things I want to say about this. First of all, just because you're attracted to a group of people doesn't mean you find everyone in that group attractive. I am polysexual; aka, I am attracted to multiple genders, but not all of them. However, the number of individuals that I am attracted to is less than 1% of those that I meet within those respective genders.

 

Second, one thing you're missing is the soul of shipping. Shipping is about what we, the fans, want. It doesn't effect the author, nor does it truly take the author's opinion into account. We take stuff from the story (there is massive amounts of evidence of chemistry between Adolin and Kaladin, for example, and that chemistry can be taken in any direction) and put our own desires into it. Most ships, by nature, will sink. 

 

The third thing I have to say is if we are using textual evidence, then there's plenty of stuff against Shallan/Kaladin. Kaladin is definitely attracted to Shallan, but Shallan is actually more scared than attracted to Kaladin. It's not healthy to date someone you're scared of. This could, of course, change, and as a multishipper I reserve the right to switch if it looks healthy, but right now we just have a Kaladin that sort of is into Shallan.

[Jit]

I don't think Adolin and Shallan will last. Something is going to happen to Adolin, and I think what he did at the end of WoR would not sit well with Shallan.

I don't think she'll have too much of a problem with what he did. After all she killed her father to protect her family.

[TheShogun]

KADOLIN

[vandalhearts]

I have a few things I want to say about this. First of all, just because you're attracted to a group of people doesn't mean you find everyone in that group attractive. I am polysexual; aka, I am attracted to multiple genders, but not all of them. However, the number of individuals that I am attracted to is less than 1% of those that I meet within those respective genders.

 

This goes without saying and isn't really limited to alternate sexuality. Just because someone is straight does not mean they're attracted to every member of the opposite sex. So it does not have a bearing on the argument.

 

 

 

Second, one thing you're missing is the soul of shipping. Shipping is about what we, the fans, want. It doesn't effect the author, nor does it truly take the author's opinion into account. We take stuff from the story (there is massive amounts of evidence of chemistry between Adolin and Kaladin, for example, and that chemistry can be taken in any direction) and put our own desires into it. Most ships, by nature, will sink. 

 

If you don't take textual evidence or author opinion into account then you might as well be writing fan fiction. There is zero textual evidence that Kaladin feels any sort of sexual attraction for guys and plenty that says otherwise.

 

 

 

The third thing I have to say is if we are using textual evidence, then there's plenty of stuff against Shallan/Kaladin. Kaladin is definitely attracted to Shallan, but Shallan is actually more scared than attracted to Kaladin. It's not healthy to date someone you're scared of. This could, of course, change, and as a multishipper I reserve the right to switch if it looks healthy, but right now we just have a Kaladin that sort of is into Shallan.

 

She is more intimidated by his intensity than scared of him. I agree that Shallan/Kaladin is far from being a certainty but it still has a lot more going for it than an Adolin/Kaladin relationship 

[Iredomi]

Okay I guess I'm going to add my opinion to this. I personally don't want Kaladin to end up with Shallan, as it is too obvious and she and Adolin totally works in my opinion. I really like that Kaladin has found some one who effects him the same way as Tien did though and that should ultimately point to their relationship being platonic. I'm not really that into shipping to be honest and I much rather characters die alone and unhappy but that is just me being masochistic or sadistic depending on how you look at it. Although that aside I think someone would be nice for Kaladin and out of the characters we've met I think Renarin and Kaladin would be pretty neat. But yeah I have no strong opinion on that.

 

However I feel I should respond to you vandalhearts.

 

This goes without saying and isn't really limited to alternate sexuality. Just because someone is straight does not mean they're attracted to every member of the opposite sex. So it does not have a bearing on the argument.

 

It doesn't really go without saying which is why it is so important to bring up.  Leinton shared their personal experience so saying it does not have bearing on the argument (especially when it does) is somewhat rude and potentially hurtful.

 

If you don't take textual evidence or author opinion into account then you might as well be writing fan fiction. There is zero textual evidence that Kaladin feels any sort of sexual attraction for guys and plenty that says otherwise.

 

You obviously have a bad opinion of fan fiction, but shipping is not necessarily so far removed from the same processes it can be a form of wish fulfilment, it does not need to have textual evidence and that textual evidence will look different to different people. Theory crafting and shipping however can be a very different process, one often relies on WoB and intensive scouring of the text, the other can be more lenient and that is fine. Shipping also provides an opportunity for those under represented to feel closer to characters they love which is completely awesome.

 

And also one final note Kaladin does not need to have a sexual attraction to anyone to necessarily want to be in a relationship with them.

[vandalhearts]

 

It doesn't really go without saying which is why it is so important to bring up.  Leinton shared their personal experience so saying it does not have bearing on the argument (especially when it does) is somewhat rude and potentially hurtful.

 

 

I didn't mean to come off as rude or hurtful, I'm just pointing out bad logic. The argument is: "Just because we haven't seen Kaladin being attracted to guys doesn't mean he's not bisexual."

 

This logic is faulty and cannot argue in favor or against so it is irrelevant. We can only go from textual evidence, which points to Kaladin not being into guys.

 

 

You obviously have a bad opinion of fan fiction, but shipping is not necessarily so far removed from the same processes it can be a form of wish fulfilment, it does not need to have textual evidence and that textual evidence will look different to different people. Theory crafting and shipping however can be a very different process, one often relies on WoB and intensive scouring of the text, the other can be more lenient and that is fine. Shipping also provides an opportunity for those under represented to feel closer to characters they love which is completely awesome.

 

Yes I do have a bad opinion of fanfiction but again that is neither here nor there. We are discussing the possibility of relationships Kaladin can be in. I'm just putting in my two cents that there is no evidence of Kaladin being a bisexual.

 

 

And also one final note Kaladin does not need to have a sexual attraction to anyone to necessarily want to be in a relationship with them.

 

Again I'm only responding to the people who claim Kaladin could be in a romantic or sexual relationship with guys. A Kaladin/Adolin friendship is already pretty well established in the book so I am not debating that.

Edited April 27, 2014 by vandalhearts

[Kogiopsis]

Ohhh man, this topic is... this topic is a trip.  So much so, in fact, that I admit I made this account primarily to comment on it.

 

Vandalhearts, as a queer person, I'd like to clear some things up.  (I almost typed 'queer things up' - that's true too, but neither here nor there at the moment.)

 

What Leinton was getting at with his comment about not finding everyone of a gender you're attracted to attractive was that while you're correct to say we've seen no evidence of Kaladin being bisexual (or pansexual, etc) we also have no conclusive evidence that he's heterosexual.  You say we have "textual evidence that Kaladin isn't into guys", but that's patently false, as what we have is some evidence that he's into women, but nothing that states that he has never, in his life, found another guy attractive.  What's more, that's also a fundamental misunderstanding of how sexuality works.  I can speak both from personal experience and conversations with a lot of other queer people that most of us thought we were straight for much of our lives, and very often people don't realize or come to terms with questions of sexuality until early adulthood, if then.  (I'm sure it would take me less than a minute of searching Dear Abby archives to find stories of people who realized their sexuality and came out after they'd started a heterosexual family - I know I've seen more than a handful of letters about that subject.)  Moreover, sexuality is more of a spectrum; it's entirely possible to generally not be attracted to people of a given gender but encounter some exceptions.  The Kinsey Scale, while generally considered oversimplified by  most people in the queer community, is a good introduction to that concept.

 

Also, when Iredomi commented that Kaladin wouldn't need to be sexually attracted to someone to be in a relationship with them - unless I miss my guess, he meant that as a distinguishing factor between sexual romantic relationships and non-sexual romantic relationships, not between romantic relationships and friendships.  Sexual attraction is by no means a prerequisite for two people to be romantically involved!

 

One last thing - I'd appreciate it if in future you didn't refer to non-het people as 'alternative sexualities', as it comes off dismissive and heteronormative.

 

I think it's worth mentioning that I think there may be a disconnect going on here with regards to what people think the thread is for, which is to say: some commenters appear to believe it's intended to discuss shipping, and some appear to believe it's about theorizing based on the text who Kaladin will end up with.  These are fundamentally two different things.  As Leinton said, shipping is about what fans want or find interesting - character dynamics they'd like to see explored, potential they see between characters.  It very often is related to fanfic (or fanart, etc), in that it tends to be what fuels it; it's rare to find a popular ship that doesn't have some sort of fanwork for it.  There is more to it, however, lest you dismiss it out of hand (this is not the place to dispute opinions on fanfic, but I will say that it has a great deal of intrinsic value from a cultural perspective and should be respected even if you don't personally enjoy it) shipping also tends to involve vast amounts of character analysis, more so than most fannish pursuits that I've seen.

(Given the title and first post of the thread, I suspect OP may have meant it to be more about theorizing based on evidence; I'm not sure what site protocol is when a thread swings off topic in a fractional but significant way.  Perhaps the discussion should be moved elsewhere, given that?)

Edited April 27, 2014 by Kogiopsis

[Aether]

Well, it's not like Thread hijacking is a new thing. It's really more of a time honoured tradition at this point.

 

And welcome to the forum, Kogiopsis! Nice to see you pop your head. And you make good points, by the way, both when it comes to your comments on sexuality and by pointing out the two kinds of discussions going on here. There are currently three Threads active on the subject of WoR shipping, and they all mix actual musings upon who will end up with whom and straight out shipping. I myself find the former to be the more interesting, but I don't see why we cannot all hang out together=).

[FeatherWriter]

Kogi said pretty much all I wanted to say, which makes my job easy, right? I think pointing out that there are two different kinds of discussion going on over here is important, but I'm with Aether. They're both interesting kinds of discussions and they're close enough on topic that we can keep them all together. 

 

It's funny Aether, I'm actually the opposite of you! I tend to try not to get too invested in what's actually going to happen and just have a lot more fun exploring lots of possibilities. Canon's going to do what canon's going to do, and there's nothing I can do to change that. Whatever it ends up being, I hope I'll enjoy it, but trying to figure out what that is actually going to be ahead of time is not as interesting to me as just the pure kind of speculation. It's the difference between a "theory" and a "ship", I think.

 

When shipping "wars" are good, they're an all-out, anything-goes sort of mindset. So long as your pairing isn't harmful I say go for it. So long as you can support the idea of these two characters together and so long as there's something interesting in their dynamic, then it's all good. Maybe your ship is not my thing, but I'm interested in hearing why you ship it and I will 100% support you in your ability to ship it. We used to joke that the Cosmere fandom had ship "spars" rather than wars. We disagree and argue against each other for fun and to sharpen our skills, not out of any animosity between us!

 

Shipping wars go bad when they tend to get into this "I'm right and you're wrong" idea. I think most fandoms where shipping is a major part of fanworks have started to trend away from this, because in the early days of fandoms there were some really nasty ship wars back in the day. Harry Potter and Avatar: The Last Airbender had some truly brutal ones. Basically, when you start attacking the person or the validity of the ship and tell them that they way they're shipping these characters is wrong just because you disagree with it is a recipe for fights. 

 

Also, Kogi's right in that this thread was not the place for discussing the merits of fanfiction, because... luckily for us we already have a thread for that! Thank you, Quiver for bringing that topic up. And I pretty much said all I want to in defense of speculative fanworks over there. It's not the way that everyone enjoys appreciating stories, but for those of us who do enjoy this kind of exercise, there is value and validity in it.

[Kogiopsis]

Thanks for the welcome!  And yeah, I'm all for harmony in general, but I do think blurring the lines between the two can exacerbate conflicts, as people approach the discussion with different baseline assumptions about what's being discussed.  That, and one of the two occasionally ends up being denigrated, which is never fun for anyone.

 

(For the record, as this is a thread about ships, I suppose I should state my own stance so - while I'd prefer Kalarin, Kadolin, or almost any other pairing, I expect to see Shalladin as endgame canon.  There's too much of Brandon's particular type of setup going on for me to reasonably hope for anything else.)

[BeneathSilverStars]

I had a thing all written up about the Kinsey scale and the differences between theorizing and shipping, but I accidentally hit back and lost it all. And then it turns out that Kogi beat me to the punch anyway! :')

 

I just wanted to add a bit more about the shipping styles topic. I definitely agree that they're both important, and while I prefer fanwork shipping, I like theory shipping as well! I think it's really interesting the two mindsets they both result in, though.

 

From what I see, theory shippers focus more on citable evidence. They count up past interactions and add them up to see what has the most support! Fanwork shippers focus more on characterization. They think of character traits, things someone could bring to a relationship and things they would need from it, and search for characters that fit together! More logic, more emotion, it makes sense.

 

It's interesting looking at all this from the point of view of what Brandon's going to actually do. In the past, he's done a lot of obvious pairings. So many arranged marriages that have worked out great! The characters have been built around each other; we knew from the beginning that they were gonna end up together. Brandon gives his characters depth still, they're not only love interests, he's not that poor a writer! But it definitely affects the way they're written and viewed.

 

In the Stormlight Archive, though, we have a different chance. No one was made to be a love interest here. All the main characters have had completely independent characters and arcs till they finally met in WoR! And here's where the shippers split. The theory shippers seem to be leaning towards Shallan for Kaladin, because it has the obvious evidence. They're the two main characters, after all! They have canon interactions, there's a bit of a canon crush, it all adds up very neatly and logically. There's precedence! (Alternatively, Shallan could stay with Adolin, because that's even more canon at the moment.)

 

The fanwork type shippers aren't content with that though. We don't want what's narratively logical, we want what's narratively interesting, and we've all made our own judgments on that, based on our own preferences and theories and character readings. We focused on what could be, not what probably will be. Some of us liked the dynamics of canon fact-supported Kaladin/Shallan, but some of us liked the dynamics of canon characterization-supported Kaladin/Adolin, or Renarin, or Sigzil, or others! And the great part is, it's all still possible. (Well ok, most of them still possible, some of them are 100% crackship, I'll admit.) We don't want Sanderson to take the obvious route. That's a big problem a lot of us had with Kaladin/Shallan actually: it's too obvious.

 

Basically, theory shippers argue for what's most likely to be canon. Fanwork shippers argue for what we want to have be canon. And yeah, in the end, some ships are far more likely than others, but at the moment, it's all still possible. And we're gonna hold onto that, and we're gonna argue that, because what's the point of a discussion if not to discuss? There's some places where the two schools of thought haven't been quite meeting up, ignoring evidence in favor of characterization or vice versa. But I think as long as we try to keep that in mind and meet in the middle it'll be ok! I know that I want to get better at theorycrafting, thinking about the ramifications of ships plot-wise, not just character development-wise! I'm still gonna hold on to my precious adorable favorite ships, no matter how unlikely they look. But maybe I'll change my mind about what's the best end-game for the characters! 0u0

[Aether]

Since we've been talking so much about the different ways of looking at this, permit me to sum up my positions:

 

Theory-shipping:

• I think Kaladin/Shallan is a more likely end-game match-up than Adolin/Shallan, but I don't think (read: hope) either of these pairings will last for the reasons stated in one of my previous posts.
• This is really fringe canon, but I think (read: pray for) there is a good chance that we might perhaps maybe quite possibly hypothetically see a Jasnah/Kaladin match-up. Jasnah is currently built up as pretty scarred and mayhaps asexual, but there is a lot about Kaladin that does not align with her presuppositions about men: he's learned, he's caring, he's a good leader and has a certain wit about him (albeit somewhat acerbic). The best point in his favour, though, is probably that he is very much alike to Dalinar, whom Jasnah has said is the one man she truly respects.
• I feel quite confident in asserting that Navani and Dalinar might end up together.

True, shamefully squeeable, OTP-shipping:

• Jasnah/Kaladin. No question about it.

And I just realised that, while I am normally quite apathetic towards fanfiction, I wouldn't mind reading something about Jasnah/Kaladin. I don't know how to go about finding anything (good) on it, though.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Aether

[vandalhearts]

Okay so I seem to have offended some people which I'd like to apologize for. That was not my intention in the least bit. And I'd like to clarify I'm not arguing the merits of fanfiction shipping. I take issue with the people who claim that Kaladin may be bisexual.

 

This theory has no merit. And I'm not saying that because I have a problem with Kaladin being a bisexual (honestly I wouldn't care) but because it is based on weak logic and no evidence. People espouse this theory because of:

 

1. Kaladin not definitely being a heterosexual.

2. The fact that in real life people are unaware of their own sexuality until much later in their lives.

3. The fact that some people can be in romantic relationships without a sexual attraction.

 

What Leinton was getting at with his comment about not finding everyone of a gender you're attracted to attractive was that while you're correct to say we've seen no evidence of Kaladin being bisexual (or pansexual, etc) we also have no conclusive evidence that he's heterosexual.  

 

So Kaldin only being attracted to women and not men isn't enough evidence? If you want to take this to the extreme, Kaladin could solely be in heterosexual relationship(s) throughout the books but unless he specifically states that he is not attracted to men, he could still be bisexual? I'm sorry but you're claiming bisexuality on the lack of conclusive evidence for the other option. This is bad logic plain and simple. Lets say you meet a white dude in the Bahamas, wearing Dallas cowboys gear, purchasing goods with American money and speaking with a southern accent. People would say he's an American. If someone says that we don't know for sure that he is an American without seeing his passport and that he could be British as well are really reaching and that is what you're doing with this theory.
 

 

What's more, that's also a fundamental misunderstanding of how sexuality works.  I can speak both from personal experience and conversations with a lot of other queer people that most of us thought we were straight for much of our lives, and very often people don't realize or come to terms with questions of sexuality until early adulthood, if then.  (I'm sure it would take me less than a minute of searching Dear Abby archives to find stories of people who realized their sexuality and came out after they'd started a heterosexual family - I know I've seen more than a handful of letters about that subject.)  Moreover, sexuality is more of a spectrum; it's entirely possible to generally not be attracted to people of a given gender but encounter some exceptions.  The Kinsey Scale, while generally considered oversimplified by  most people in the queer community, is a good introduction to that concept.

 

True enough, but for this to work with Kaladin you would have to extrapolate from real world data. How common is this scenario? Is there any reason for this to be true in Roshar? If so where is the evidence for it? Ultimately this point also hinges on a possibility and not any actual evidence that we've seen. As long as we're speaking with anecdotes, I have also known homosexual people in real life who were hilariously unaware of their own sexuality but it was very obvious to others.  For it to work with Kaladin, we'd have to have some tell or some reaction from another POV observer. Kaladin has displayed no such mannerisms that would indicate that he may harbor attraction towards other guys.

 

 

Also, when Iredomi commented that Kaladin wouldn't need to be sexually attracted to someone to be in a relationship with them - unless I miss my guess, he meant that as a distinguishing factor between sexual romantic relationships and non-sexual romantic relationships, not between romantic relationships and friendships.  Sexual attraction is by no means a prerequisite for two people to be romantically involved!

 

True but ultimately pointless in this debate. Kaladin could end up in a romantic relationship with a guy despite being heterosexual (I reeeeealy doubt it) but again where is the evidence for this? Is there any foreshadowing for this? 

 

So to conclude, the theory that Kaladin may be in a relationship with a guy is based on nothing but really weak assumptions, bad logic and absolutely no evidence. If people are going to put forward a theory they should at least have some basis for it.

[Aether]

We have pointed out the different types of discussions/theory-crafting going on in this Thread. You are correct to point out that most of the arguments in favour of Kaladin's bisexuality is variations of the "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"-argument, but I think most of us here are just happy to ship Kaladin/Adolin etc. even if the factual basing for such a paring is slight at best.

 

I think it would be for the best if we avoided any further post on this particular issue. I agree with you, there is little evidence for some of the ships floating around, but there is no reason to shove it in now that you've gotten your point across.

[shawnhargreaves]

So to conclude, the theory that Kaladin may be in a relationship with a guy is based on nothing but really weak assumptions, bad logic and absolutely no evidence. If people are going to put forward a theory they should at least have some basis for it.

 

This comes down to the difference between theory-shipping and (for want of a better term) ship-shipping.  Key differences between these mindsets:

 

Theory-shipping:

• Tries to predict what WILL happen
• Breaks the third wall - very aware that this is a story in a book, and takes into account everything known about the author (extrapolation based on knowledge of their style from previous works, real world interviews, etc.)

Ship-shipping:

• Explores what the shipper would LIKE (or find interesting) to happen
• Stays within the in-story universe

From a theory perspective, you are entirely right.  In the real world of future SA novels, it is extremely unlikely that Brandon will write Kalodin or Kallarin, because we know from interviews that he is planning to introduce a gay character but feels cautious and wants to make sure he gets this right.  It is a stretch to expect he would dive right in to something he is clearly nervous about by unexpectedly bringing together a couple of the main leads.  We also know that Brandon is a master of foreshadowing, but even with an army of people scrutinizing the text for any signs of such things, there's little to be found.

 

But from a ship perspective, none of that matters.  To a ship-shipper there is no author, just some characters in a world.  Thus the vibe of interactions between these characters becomes more important than presence or absence of explicit foreshadowing, and it can be fun to explore many things that we know full well are unlikely to ever become canon.

[Aether]

(...) and it can be fun to explore many things that we know full well are unlikely to ever become canon.

Such as the Jasnah/Chull one floating around the Syl Thread...   

[Swimmingly]

No! Bad Aether! No!...

I'm going to have to make like Szeth and never close my eyes if I think of that once more.

[Aether]

No! Bad Aether! No!...

I'm going to have to make like Szeth and never close my eyes if I think of that once more.

Pardon me. 'Tis not MY fault that according to the Law of Syl (or whatever we called it), 17th Shard Threads will eventually degrade into depravity.

[FeatherWriter]

Silver, that was pretty much everything I was trying to say earlier, but put way more clearly. Awesome! Aether and Swimmingly, I like the directions you're headed too! Understanding the differences between these is important, and I think we're finally nailing it down. I think 17S should be a place where both of these kinds of discussions are encouraged and welcome. I mean, this is the official Branderson fansite, so we should be able to have awesome talks about whatever kinds of Brandon-related stuff fans are wanting to talk about!

 

And hats off to this thread for keeping civil even through disagreements. People in here have been doing very well with that, thank you.

[Aether]

Aether and Swimmingly, I like the directions you're headed too!

Really strange timing on that praise, considering my second-to-last post...

 

By the way, you wouldn't happen to know where I could find some good Kaladin/Jasnah fanfic?

[Kogiopsis]

...alright.  For the sake of peace and serenity I will say nothing more with regards to Vandalhearts' post, except for: wow, way to miss the point.

 

On a different note - Aether, I'm afraid you're out of luck when it comes to Kalasnah fic.  The Tumblr fandom seems to be the fic-producing side, as a rule, and the Tumblr fandom... seems to vastly prefer acearo or queer-romantic Jasnah.  (I don't think I've ever seen anyone with a het-allo headcanon for her.)  I can't recall running into more than maaaaaybe two Kalasnah shippers there, and I don't know that either of them write, so if you want fic you'll have to do it yourself.  If you do, I would be interested to read it - I've found most explanations of Kalasnah center around him 'curing her of her dislike of men', which is kind of a gross starting point for a lot of real-world contextual reasons, and I'm curious to see what could be done with the pairing.

[Aether]

(...) so if you want fic you'll have to do it yourself.  If you do, I would be interested to read it - I've found most explanations of Kalasnah center around him 'curing her of her dislike of men', which is kind of a gross starting point for a lot of real-world contextual reasons, and I'm curious to see what could be done with the pairing.

I'll be more likely to write an essay on the subject than a proper fanfic, I'm afraid. But thank you for looking around.  

 

And yes, I agree that that particular take on it is rather disgusting. I was imagining it more as Jasnah's scholarly curiosity making her take a lose look at Kaladin's history and current occupation (she'll probably do so out of prudence as well, given her history of protecting her family with borderline paranoia), and then slowly warm up to him. It isn't as much about "curing her" as it is about showing her that all men aren't the same and that there are some with very good and honourable qualities.

[Kogiopsis]

Hmm.  You should write that essay!  More ship manifestos are always fun, and this fandom is sadly lacking in them.  (I think there are only two extant at the moment, which is really a crying shame.)

 

...is it derailing the thread too far to ask how you'd address the age gap?  It is still related to Kaladin shipping, after all...

[Shaggai]

Alright. I've been thinking. Brandon loves to do the unexpected. So there are two ways this could go. First, Brandon does the obvious. Second, and more likely, he does the unexpected. Therefore, I've compiled a list of completely unexpected ships for Kaladin.

-Roshone

-Tvlakv

-Chasmfiend

-Sadeas

-Elhokar

-Sazed

-Brightness Matal

-Grandpa Smedry

-Gaz

-Tyrion Lannister

-Morgoth

-Amaram

-Yog-Sothoth

-Alds

-Norton I, Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico

-Hari Seldon

-Julia

-Eshonai's stormspen (not Eshonai, just her stormspren)

-Raklion warlord

-All of the above at once

However, Brandon knows we know he does the unexpected. Therefore, something slightly more expected is, paradoxically, more unexpected, and as such there are only two possible ships: Kaladin/Axies, and Kaladin/The Spanish Inquisition.