BeneathSilverStars

Oh hey I'm the person sanderson was replying to!!! it makes so happy that that lil convo makes other people happy heheh..... Personally I dunno about long term ship but like, Jasnah is absolutely Shallan's bi awakening?? I like to imagine like, Jasnah knows about her crush and thinks it's super cute, and likes her too but maybe more casually, mostly because she's just too busy for romance... So Jasnah like kinda indulges her and then is like "sorry this really can't go anywhere" but then kisses her goodbye....... and shallan is like wow im gonna pine for you forever but also this is more than i expected to get and im gonna treasure it forever! wow! anyway shallan does need someone on more equal footing imo to end up with in the end, but also. also. also they ARE gay and probably have kissed, or will kiss, some time in the future. or hey, this series is gonna last so long time-wise, maybe something could happen in ten years or something when they are more equal.. shallan is a super badass and then JASNAH starts crushing and is like oh jeez how the tables have turned. and THEN they date. anyway. anyway. anyway yeah shallan has the biggest gayest crush on jasnah in the world.

It's completely okay that you didn't notice it? I didn't recognize it myself, either! I didn't pay much attention to Renarin at all until I joined fandom. I didn't like either of the Kholin brothers, actually, I was too busy looking forward to Shallan and Kaladin, heheh. But now I am in fandom, and I've had opportunities to discuss other characters and give them the attention they deserve. I definitely didn't discover that Renarin is on the autism spectrum for myself. But now that it's been pointed out, I can see it! I guess I don't get why you're arguing "I don't really think he has it, because I didn't recognize it", when other people have recognized it, and explained it.

Everyone's different. That's one of the really important things about representation, getting rid of stereotypes and showing that not everyone with the same neurotype is the same, or even similar! Being autistic is just one facet of Renarin's character. He's a lot more complicated than that one thing, no matter how important it might be, and he, just like every other neuro-atypical person out there, is not going to perfectly fit everyone's stereotyped expectations. It makes sense to me that Renarin is on the autistic spectrum. My little brother has Aspergers, and he is definitely not exactly like Renarin, or any other autistic person out there! But he's sure closer to Renarin than he is to your narrow, negative description. Maybe you can't see how Renarin is neuro-atypical, but I can, and whether or not you can see it, it's canon.

I had a thing all written up about the Kinsey scale and the differences between theorizing and shipping, but I accidentally hit back and lost it all. And then it turns out that Kogi beat me to the punch anyway! :') I just wanted to add a bit more about the shipping styles topic. I definitely agree that they're both important, and while I prefer fanwork shipping, I like theory shipping as well! I think it's really interesting the two mindsets they both result in, though. From what I see, theory shippers focus more on citable evidence. They count up past interactions and add them up to see what has the most support! Fanwork shippers focus more on characterization. They think of character traits, things someone could bring to a relationship and things they would need from it, and search for characters that fit together! More logic, more emotion, it makes sense. It's interesting looking at all this from the point of view of what Brandon's going to actually do. In the past, he's done a lot of obvious pairings. So many arranged marriages that have worked out great! The characters have been built around each other; we knew from the beginning that they were gonna end up together. Brandon gives his characters depth still, they're not only love interests, he's not that poor a writer! But it definitely affects the way they're written and viewed. In the Stormlight Archive, though, we have a different chance. No one was made to be a love interest here. All the main characters have had completely independent characters and arcs till they finally met in WoR! And here's where the shippers split. The theory shippers seem to be leaning towards Shallan for Kaladin, because it has the obvious evidence. They're the two main characters, after all! They have canon interactions, there's a bit of a canon crush, it all adds up very neatly and logically. There's precedence! (Alternatively, Shallan could stay with Adolin, because that's even more canon at the moment.) The fanwork type shippers aren't content with that though. We don't want what's narratively logical, we want what's narratively interesting, and we've all made our own judgments on that, based on our own preferences and theories and character readings. We focused on what could be, not what probably will be. Some of us liked the dynamics of canon fact-supported Kaladin/Shallan, but some of us liked the dynamics of canon characterization-supported Kaladin/Adolin, or Renarin, or Sigzil, or others! And the great part is, it's all still possible. (Well ok, most of them still possible, some of them are 100% crackship, I'll admit.) We don't want Sanderson to take the obvious route. That's a big problem a lot of us had with Kaladin/Shallan actually: it's too obvious. Basically, theory shippers argue for what's most likely to be canon. Fanwork shippers argue for what we want to have be canon. And yeah, in the end, some ships are far more likely than others, but at the moment, it's all still possible. And we're gonna hold onto that, and we're gonna argue that, because what's the point of a discussion if not to discuss? There's some places where the two schools of thought haven't been quite meeting up, ignoring evidence in favor of characterization or vice versa. But I think as long as we try to keep that in mind and meet in the middle it'll be ok! I know that I want to get better at theorycrafting, thinking about the ramifications of ships plot-wise, not just character development-wise! I'm still gonna hold on to my precious adorable favorite ships, no matter how unlikely they look. But maybe I'll change my mind about what's the best end-game for the characters! 0u0

I vote for Renarin! I'm quite the multishipper and I'll probably be okay with whatever Brandon chooses, but Renarin/Kaladin is my favorite by far. Part of it is Tien parallels. I think Renarin could really be the kind of gentle, hopeful influence that Kaladin needs, someone to cheer him up during the weepings. He's not quite the boundlessly optimistic, carefree Tien, of course, but he could definitely fill some of the same role. Unlike Kaladin's bantering and bickering with Adolin and Shallan, his relationship with Renarin would be a lot more... soft and earnest. I'm all for witty conversations and volatile feelings, but I think that what Kaladin (and Renarin) really needs is someone steady to fall back on. Of course any good relationship would end up that way, with deeper trust and understanding and security, with unguarded moments and broken-down walls, but I can see it more readily and permanently with Renarin than the others. The scene where Renarin joined Bridge Four was amazing, and I think it's the strongest support that the relationship I see for them is possible. Kaladin knew exactly what was going on and had just the right things to say. He understood immediately that Renarin was doing something he found extremely difficult and uncomfortable. Kaladin wasn't patronizing or condescending, he was straight-forward and appreciative, and that was what Renarin needed. He's had too many people misunderstand, judge, and dismiss him. I can really see Kaladin helping him become more confident and accepting of himself, because Kaladin actually has an idea of what's going on. As a surgeon's son and a Knight Radiant, he's perfectly suited to be Renarin's support. I think Kaladin and Renarin would really compliment each other, building each other up in just the right ways. As Renarin learns to be more confident in who he is, he can help Kaladin more, and as Kaladin learns to trust and share his burdens and responsibilities, he can help Renarin more. It's all a big circle of helping and healing and undoing society's dumb problems. They both know what it's like, to be looked down on and dismissed by the world, to feel like they're not and will never be good enough. Kaladin can say, it's okay, you're not broken, you are useful and important, and here's why. Renarin can say, it's okay, it's not your fault, you can make it, and you don't have to make it alone. I don't have proof this will happen, we're only in the second book, no end-game theories here. Looking at their characters, though, I really think it could. I think if it did, it would be beautiful.