What could the second half of Stormlight be?

[Guest]

I was definitely a Shallarin shipper. Feather had me completely convinced of that. I still think they would be cute if it played out like her stories. But I came to quite enjoy Shallan/Adolin together. They were pretty cute and I don't think Kal will get her.

 

I absolutely hate Shallan and Renarin as a couple. In fact, I do not understand the whole hype over Renarin. He is awkward, he is secretive when he should be talking, he doesn't do much and he is overall unimpressive in pretty much everything. They only good part about him where his interactions with his brother who were kind of cute. Now if Renarin where to start working on fabrial (and please drop the idea of becoming a warrior) and do something more worthwhile then screaming "We are all going to die", then I may get into him.

 

As for Feather's stories, yeah, they are cute, but the Renarin she depicts is very different then the Renarin in WoR. I just do not see him with any women for the moment, especially not happy go lucky Shallan.

 

Adolin is joyful, charming, brave and he is not stupid. He was not raised to be smart, but we do see him get clever at times, like when he fought the Parshendi. Being with Shallan would encourage him to develop his intellect as I believe he has some potential that is crucially underused. Maybe he could even learn a glyph or two.

 

Renarin may be smart, but he is not quick witted. He would not be able to respond to Shallan quickies as he over thinks everything. She would through something, he would think it over and minutes later come up with a response. Shallan would get bored with him. Adolin may not be quick witted, but he is able to respond something funny in a timely manner.

 

Kaladin is moody, dark, unhappy, but very smart. He can easily keep up with Shallan intellect, but he is depressing. He always see life in the most negative fashion much unlike Shallan. They would clash there and I believe, on the long run, Shallan would grow tired of being with someone so desperate/depressed.

 

Nah I think Adolin and Shallan are good for each other and I think Kal needs some other kind of women. I would see him with the grim smart badass warrior women who doesn't care about conventions and what is proper.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Ooh, i hear the wrath of Feather incoming. You've been warned.

 

Yes, Feather's Renarin is different from Brandon's, but I think it works and Brandon could've gone that way if he had decided to. But my prediction for now is that Shallan and Adolin will stay together.

[Guest]

Ooh, i hear the wrath of Feather incoming. You've been warned.

 

Yes, Feather's Renarin is different from Brandon's, but I think it works and Brandon could've gone that way if he had decided to. But my prediction for now is that Shallan and Adolin will stay together.

 

I agree. After reading WoK, yes Renarin could have gone in another direction and yes Feather's idea could have been. It was plausible, but not after reading WoR. Hey, have I known about this forum, I may even have gotten into Shallarin, but not *now*.

 

There are so many things I disliked about Renarin in WoR I do not know where to start.

 

I disliked his endeavor to become a warrior. I give a A+ for trying: I was happy for him to get a shot for it after WoK, but I was really disappointed to see him being so inefficient. Kal even remarks that Moash is more apt in his shardplate after a few days than Renarin is after many weeks of training. Really. Dalinar should get a "Dad of the year" medal for letting his son waste such a valuable resource that is a shardplate just to accommodate his whim to become something he clearly is unfitted for.

 

During all the book, he whines that he wants to fight. He is frustrated when his father does not let him fight the Assassin in White. He complains the whole time that nobody would let him try and yet when he gets a chance, when Dalinar ask him to simply go with the scholar and protect them, he says no. Really.

 

In the duel, yes that was very brave and courageous to jump in. Yes he is hearing is blade screaming but is it so horrible you cannot take a decent swing?

 

The everstorm is coming, the world is pretty much about to end for the entire army. Shallan and the scholars are desperately trying to find a solution and all he could do is scream "We are going to die"? Can you just take it up on you a little? Try to help and if that proves to difficult for your nerves than at least try to remain silent and do not disrupt the others. At that point, Shallan has come forward as being a Radiant. Renarin clearly knows things and does he do anything useful? No. He just stands there being scared. Come on! Do something.

 

Him being a Radiant. OK. Maybe, but I just don't get how Renarin is SO broken. His family is amazing. They love him, they support him. Nobody teases him. His big brother got him the best swordmaster possible, he brings him to the training ground, he helps him, he is being really supportive but he is so broken... It is just not enough for me to buy it, not after reading the horror movie that is Kal and Shallan's life. Sorry.

 

Overall, he was disappointing by his lack of pro-activeness in the book and his obsession over being a warrior. He should have been smart enough to realize he is just not made for it and go work on his strengths. I found it amazing that nobody had the courage to tell him so.

 

This being said, I know I sound like a Renarin hatter, but I was sorely disappointed in him in WoR. Even more so I had better hopes for him.

[kaellok he/him]

 

1. In the duel, yes that was very brave and courageous to jump in. Yes he is hearing is blade screaming but is it so horrible you cannot take a decent swing?

 

2. The everstorm is coming, the world is pretty much about to end for the entire army. Shallan and the scholars are desperately trying to find a solution and all he could do is scream "We are going to die"? Can you just take it up on you a little? Try to help and if that proves to difficult for your nerves than at least try to remain silent and do not disrupt the others. At that point, Shallan has come forward as being a Radiant. Renarin clearly knows things and does he do anything useful? No. He just stands there being scared. Come on! Do something.

 

3. Him being a Radiant. OK. Maybe, but I just don't get how Renarin is SO broken. His family is amazing. They love him, they support him. Nobody teases him. His big brother got him the best swordmaster possible, he brings him to the training ground, he helps him, he is being really supportive but he is so broken... It is just not enough for me to buy it, not after reading the horror movie that is Kal and Shallan's life. Sorry.

 

4. Overall, he was disappointing by his lack of pro-activeness in the book and his obsession over being a warrior. He should have been smart enough to realize he is just not made for it and go work on his strengths. I found it amazing that nobody had the courage to tell him so.

Added numbers after some snips to your post to make it easier to respond!

 

1.  The screaming of the blade was bad enough to cause a seasoned, veteran warrior to run away screaming himself.  He abandoned a fight that directly led to the loss of some of the most valuable possessions anyone can have in the world.  For Renarin to stay in the fight while wielding his own blade, hearing that screaming for more than a bare second or two, is incredible.  To downplay this as you have is to unfairly downplay Renarin's strength, and I strongly urge you to re-think this.

 

2.  This is also likely the point where Renarin's heretical visions of the future were beginning to come true, forcing him to deal with the fact that his power is blasphemous; oh, yeah, and he knows exactly what they're facing and how impossible it is to stop it.  Ignorant people are sometimes capable of amazing things, because they don't know that they can't do something.  Kaladin didn't know that he couldn't heal his arm after being cut by a Shardblade, but he did it anyway.  Renarin knows (or thinks he knows) what is and is not possible, and this limits his views of his options.  Also, his brain works just bit differently than a normal one would, so his reactions, especially in a significantly traumatic and unique situation, aren't necessarily going to be the right ones.  Look to everyone else in the area being equally useless, too; he is hardly alone, but he has arguably the greatest excuse.

 

3. Shallan wasn't broken during the timeline of WoK or WoR; it's likely that Renarin wasn't, either.  We've seen barely anything of him as a  character, so judging him based on the last 4 months of his life is pretty damnation ludicrous.  Given Alethi society, I would be surprised if he hadn't been exposed to the type of emotional trauma that could break a soul.  I mean, honestly; we know Dalinar is a good person now, but that he wasn't a good person several years ago.  How much of Dalinar's caring and kindness in WoK and WoR is to make up for being "Worst Father Ever" to Renarin growing up?  (Pure speculation on my part, obviously, but it seems to fit.)

 

4. People want to do what is expected of them, not just what they are best at.  Societal pressure that way is huge.  It doesn't even matter what that 'thing' may be: skinny, famous, a doctor, a warrior.  Alethi males are warriors, and light-eyed Alethi males are leaders.  Ardents, on the other hand, are property.  Even if the ardentia would make best use of his talents, I want you to tell your son that he's only good to be another man's property.  No.  Just no.  Not while there's the possibility of another option.

 

Renarin is rather far from my favorite character, but he's really done nothing to justify your rants

[Guest]

Added numbers after some snips to your post to make it easier to respond!

 

1.  The screaming of the blade was bad enough to cause a seasoned, veteran warrior to run away screaming himself.  He abandoned a fight that directly led to the loss of some of the most valuable possessions anyone can have in the world.  For Renarin to stay in the fight while wielding his own blade, hearing that screaming for more than a bare second or two, is incredible.  To downplay this as you have is to unfairly downplay Renarin's strength, and I strongly urge you to re-think this.

 

2.  This is also likely the point where Renarin's heretical visions of the future were beginning to come true, forcing him to deal with the fact that his power is blasphemous; oh, yeah, and he knows exactly what they're facing and how impossible it is to stop it.  Ignorant people are sometimes capable of amazing things, because they don't know that they can't do something.  Kaladin didn't know that he couldn't heal his arm after being cut by a Shardblade, but he did it anyway.  Renarin knows (or thinks he knows) what is and is not possible, and this limits his views of his options.  Also, his brain works just bit differently than a normal one would, so his reactions, especially in a significantly traumatic and unique situation, aren't necessarily going to be the right ones.  Look to everyone else in the area being equally useless, too; he is hardly alone, but he has arguably the greatest excuse.

 

3. Shallan wasn't broken during the timeline of WoK or WoR; it's likely that Renarin wasn't, either.  We've seen barely anything of him as a  character, so judging him based on the last 4 months of his life is pretty damnation ludicrous.  Given Alethi society, I would be surprised if he hadn't been exposed to the type of emotional trauma that could break a soul.  I mean, honestly; we know Dalinar is a good person now, but that he wasn't a good person several years ago.  How much of Dalinar's caring and kindness in WoK and WoR is to make up for being "Worst Father Ever" to Renarin growing up?  (Pure speculation on my part, obviously, but it seems to fit.)

 

4. People want to do what is expected of them, not just what they are best at.  Societal pressure that way is huge.  It doesn't even matter what that 'thing' may be: skinny, famous, a doctor, a warrior.  Alethi males are warriors, and light-eyed Alethi males are leaders.  Ardents, on the other hand, are property.  Even if the ardentia would make best use of his talents, I want you to tell your son that he's only good to be another man's property.  No.  Just no.  Not while there's the possibility of another option.

 

Renarin is rather far from my favorite character, but he's really done nothing to justify your rants

 

1. Blade screaming, I may give you that. It is quite possible it is horrible, but honestly I just can't picture it. I utterly fail to comprehend it was this horrible. The fault may be mine for not being comprehensive, I'll give that as well. From my point-of-vue, many things caused Relis departure: Pattern, Kal unbelievably achievement and the unexpected scream, yes, but when I read it, I didn't think the screaming blade was the sole cause of defeat. Or that is not how I read it. Also, when Dalinar hears his blade screaming, he does not react this repulsively nor this strongly. Maybe Sanderson has not explain well enough the screaming blade issue. Maybe he will in the next book, but for now, I just can't shake out of my head how easy it is to explain Renarin ineptitude by blaming a screaming blade.

 

2. He is not alone being useless, but he is alone being a nuisance. The panic was not necessary. Besides even in the knowledge of the inevitable, it is within human nature to still try to find a solution. The other scholars may not have been useful, but at least they didn't go about screaming insanities. I am also tired of always hearing excuses for Renarin: it is not his fault his is seeing things, he is hearing screams, he is supposedly autistic, etc. He has to take some of the blame for his bad reaction.

 

3. You are right. We barely see him. All we know is he had a disease. Period. And supposedly that broke him, but I just cannot see how. As I said, having a disabilities does not break a child. Well, it can, depending how it is played, but we have seen no evidence of that with Renarin. Alright, he couldn't fight, but by his own admission his case hardly is isolated. Others had no talent for war. All we have seen so far is a Renarin who doesn't quite fit, but he is not teased on nor does he have the intimidated kid's profile (trust me, one member of my family had a traumatic childhood in that manner and Renarin is nothing like that person). Besides, I seriously doubt big brother would have let anyone bully him when they were kids and I seriously doubt anyone would have wanted to go across big brother just to take a nip at a sickly child. I dunno about Dalinar. You may be right, but his sons love him so much it is hard to see him being such a bad dad. Wouldn't Renarin resent his dad had he been mean to him before? And how about Adolin who idolizes his father? Would he do so if his father had been mean to his kid brother whom he loves? I cannot see any evidence of Dalinar being anything else than a decent dad, despite his gruesome past. Unless it has something to do with the mother, that I could conceive.

 

4. True. You are again right, but look at the hardship Kal and Shallan had to endure? How can it even be compared to "not being able to live up to my society way of life"? I guess this is where I have issues. Brandon put so much emphasis on the "need to be broken" I felt I was robbed when Renarin and, to a lesser extend, Dalinar were made Radiant. I guess most of my rant came from there.

 

You are right, I may have been harsh on him. It has just been bugging me for a while and honestly he is one character that took a drop down during WoR for me. The ending was utterly disappointing, Renarin wise. Maybe book 3 will help, I hope it will. The interaction between the brothers was great in WoK.

[kaellok he/him]

Without reading a lot of Feaher's posts, I don't know that I would have really developed an opinion about Renarin one way or another.  Re-reading scenes and parts including him through the lens they provided really helped to change that.

 

Honestly, I think that the climax scenes were really--I don't want to say bad.  They seemed off, though.  From Kaladin's fight with Szeth to Shallan's attitude in the teleporter (and turning the climax of Shallan's book into Kaladin flying through a Highstorm) just all didn't quite fit right to me.  Despite my complaints, I love Sanderson as an author and I think WoR is his best-written novel yet (and each book he writes seems to be better than the one before it).  Part of that is why I'm so willing to give Renarin benefit of the doubt (and Kaladin, too, much as I gripe about him); I trust that it will be made clear, and in a poignant and meaningful way, in the future.

[Guest]

Without reading a lot of Feaher's posts, I don't know that I would have really developed an opinion about Renarin one way or another.  Re-reading scenes and parts including him through the lens they provided really helped to change that.

 

Honestly, I think that the climax scenes were really--I don't want to say bad.  They seemed off, though.  From Kaladin's fight with Szeth to Shallan's attitude in the teleporter (and turning the climax of Shallan's book into Kaladin flying through a Highstorm) just all didn't quite fit right to me.  Despite my complaints, I love Sanderson as an author and I think WoR is his best-written novel yet (and each book he writes seems to be better than the one before it).  Part of that is why I'm so willing to give Renarin benefit of the doubt (and Kaladin, too, much as I gripe about him); I trust that it will be made clear, and in a poignant and meaningful way, in the future.

 

I hope you are right    I feel the same way about the ending. As I was saying in another post, I feel Kaladin's path to KR was so hard, so difficult, so tedious it makes any other path seem meaningless. We have had two books full of Kal angst and hardship. Each time we thought it was getting better, it got worst and then privileged Renarin who lived a pampered life with a loving family (even if you are right and Dalinar was not always Dad of the Year, he still had his big brother and no can dispute those two care for each other) but had the bad fortune to be born with a disease that, on a scale of one to ten, is not *that* terrible (I mean, he is physically nor mentally impaired, he can do pretty much everything save fighting, the fits doe not seem to come in any other occasion anyway) becoming KR. I felt robbed. Really. Look at all Kal had to endure to be there? Renarin had the easiest path of all: it feels so unfair All he had to do was having the good luck to be born with a disease. Really. Shallan had to develop this unbelievable talent for drawing; Kal had to become this protector of people which he learned to be the hard way; Dalinar had to massacre thousand of people and Renarin... Oh yes, he had this small disease which we don't even see that prevented him from becoming a warrior, I mean how many fit did he have in two books? One? Zero?

 

I guess I am so unhappy about him as a character is I felt he have accomplished nothing that would justify him becoming a KR. Now, if we had had a Renarin POV to explain things a bit more, maybe I would have felt different. Geez, to a lesser extend, I even feel robbed Dalinar got to be a KR by bonding the stormfather and all he had to do was yell a few words! Kal had to be bleeding near death on the verge of collapsing for this to happen

 

Szeth will most likely become a real Skybreaker in the next book. Now, I hate Szeth, but I will not dispute he had it hard.

 

Eshonai will probably become KR in book 4. I sort of like her and I certainly won't dispute the hardships she is bond to have.

 

The only reason I am slightly excited about Renarin (and Dalinar although he was predictable) is because I am anxious to see how that will modify the Kohlin's family dynamic, but i feel robbed.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

This thread has strayed into some very spoilery topics, I'm moving it to the subforum.