Nalan and the Skybreakers

[Ketek]

I've been reading the speculation about the Skybreakers - and everyone seems to agree that our beloved Herald of Justice is corrupted/twisted.

 

But I have a different idea. I don't think Nalan is necessarily corrupted. Rather, I think he's trying to stop the Desolation too, but in his own way. Assuming Darkness is Nalan'elin (probably, due to the description and his adherence to the law, which is interesting in itself since Heralds are not known to be bound by the Ideals), we know that he wants to prevent the Desolations from returning.

 

Perhaps instead of preventing the Knights Radiant from returning, he wants to make sure only one specific order will return. His own. The Skybreakers.

 

Why? The Recreance, perhaps. Perhaps he's convinced that all the other orders are not worthy of his trust, and he excludes the Skybreakers because of their oaths to uphold the law, and because he directly controls them. Or perhaps the Skybreakers never truly disbanded. He may feel that one united order is better than ten with different leaders and different ways of doing things.

 

As for the issue of his minions carrying Shardblades, they don't have to be Surgebinders, or even squires. They could just be affiliated with the Skybreakers without being Surgebinders - and even if the highspren don't like it, they won't consider it breaking an ideal. Using a dead spren as a weapon is unsavory, but not breaking any law (I think). And if this is all true, there may be something we are not considering.

 

Perhaps the fight against Odium has other rules, rules we are not yet aware of that the Skybreakers are aware of. Perhaps the new Surgebinders are breaking that rule, or those rules, without being aware of it. For example... what if there can only be a limited amount of Surgebinders in this world, or else something really bad happens? It would then make sense for Nalan to kill non-Skybreaker Surgebinders, as they are one, not under his control, and two, he wants more Skybreakers without going past the limit.

 

Your thoughts are most welcome.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Ketek

[Kasimir]

But I have a different idea. I don't think Nalan is necessarily corrupted. Rather, I think he's trying to stop the Desolation too, but in his own way. Assuming Darkness is Nalan'elin (probably, due to the description and his adherence to the law, which is interesting in itself since Heralds are not known to be bound by the Ideals), we know that he wants to prevent the Desolations from returning.

 

Perhaps instead of preventing the Knights Radiant from returning, he wants to make sure only one specific order will return. His own. The Skybreakers.

 

...

 

Perhaps the fight against Odium has other rules, rules we are not yet aware of that the Skybreakers are aware of. Perhaps the new Surgebinders are breaking that rule, or those rules, without being aware of it. For example... what if there can only be a limited amount of Surgebinders in this world, or else something really bad happens? It would then make sense for Nalan to kill non-Skybreaker Surgebinders, as they are one, not under his control, and two, he wants more Skybreakers without going past the limit.

I like this theory, and I actually think it answers one of the problems that the 'Nalan went crazy' theories don't: how does killing Surgebinders stop the coming Desolation? So far, we know from WoB that the Heralds can only spend a definite amount of time on Roshar, after which they must return to Damnation or risk starting another Desolation. That's why Nalan and his peers left Taln there: they were trying to find a way out of that. Problem is: although Taln held out for much longer than they did collectively, surely Nalan knows that Taln must eventually break, however long he endures. When he returns, the Desolation will come anyway. It's one reason to think we don't know enough about what's going on, yes. But it's also a reason to think that Nalan is aware of what those things we don't know are.

 

So yes, I like the theory that he wants to stop the Desolations in his own way, perhaps with his own order. Maybe there's something he can do with Skybreakers to stop them from happening or to solve the Desolation when it happens.The question I do have for this theory though, is as follows: what do you make of Nalan's relationship with his own order? We know from one of the epigraphs that Nalan was the last Herald to become the patron of a KR order. Given that history, why would Nalan want to recreate his Skybreakers?

[Ketek]

I don't know for sure, but I'd say he treats them much like a strict headmaster, especially towards those who haven't sworn any oaths, like the ones using the dead Shardblades.

 

And he'd want to recreate them because they're directly under his control; it makes them easier to manipulate unlike Windrunners or Edgedancers, for example. They follow the same code, after all...

[AerionBFII]

I find it ironic that he holds everybody in such low moral regard considering he broke his oaths and abandoned one of his allies to Damnation.

Edited April 19, 2014 by WEZ313

[Kasimir]

Ketek, on 16 Apr 2014 - 7:35 PM, said:

I don't know for sure, but I'd say he treats them much like a strict headmaster, especially towards those who haven't sworn any oaths, like the ones using the dead Shardblades.

And he'd want to recreate them because they're directly under his control; it makes them easier to manipulate unlike Windrunners or Edgedancers, for example. They follow the same code, after all...

Fair enough. I think some details may need to be fleshed out, but given the information we do have, I can see it plausible. Nalan does have some controlling/'Ordnung muss sein' tendencies. I'll give it to you; I think I'm mostly convinced and I find this an interesting theory.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Kasimir

[Ketek]

I find it ironic that he holds everybody in such low moral regard considering he broke his oaths and abandoned one of his allies to Damnation.

 

To be fair they did expect it to stop the Desolations from coming. And considering how he was one of those tortured nonstop I'm not sure we can really say he doesn't have the moral high ground. Were I in his position I might well have done the same. By betraying Taln, they gave Roshar 4.5 millenia of peace and development, instead of near-constant destruction, so...

 

And now that it's starting to return, he's at least trying to do something. None of the other Heralds are.

[Kasimir]

Ketek, on 19 Apr 2014 - 4:41 PM, said:

To be fair they did expect it to stop the Desolations from coming. And considering how he was one of those tortured nonstop I'm not sure we can really say he doesn't have the moral high ground. Were I in his position I might well have done the same. By betraying Taln, they gave Roshar 4.5 millenia of peace and development, instead of near-constant destruction, so...

And now that it's starting to return, he's at least trying to do something. None of the other Heralds are.

In all fairness, Jezrien is still very dodgy about how he says it. "A…a decision has been made. It is time for the Oathpact to end.” We know Ishar suggested they just needed one person to keep the Oathpact, but in all fairness, we don't know if it was a group decision. Given this, we don't know if it was a collective decision, or someone simply managed to convince the others. Jezrien's words don't seem to implicate anyone, and he himself says he was "chosen" to wait for Kalak. It's plausible Nalan didn't actually make or approve of the decision--I just mean I'm not certain it's unanimous.

And even if either way you look at it, Nalan did end up breaking his oath, that possibly explains why he now holds everyone else in such low moral regard. To a man who finds order and keeping your word no matter what to be the most beautiful thing--what does that say of him? And if he can't do it, how can he expect everyone else to do so? I see it as a breaking event that drives Nalan, basically. If we run with Ketek's 'Nalan is not crazy' theory, then one might suggest he is driven by the need to redeem himself. Because by his own code, he is already guilty. That's serious mental baggage there.

As a semi-related aside: I'm not sure if anyone else has pointed it out this before, but for those familiar with Chinese folktales, Nalan is actually portrayed like the figure Justice Bao. Bao's a magistrate, portrayed as righteous and incorruptible. He's a hardliner on justice, "famous for his uncompromising stance against corruption among the government officials at the time. He upheld justice and refused to yield to higher powers." (Thanks, Wikipedia.) And most interestingly: he's often depicted as a dark-skinned man with a pale birthmark in the shape of a crescent on his forehead.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Kasimir

[Ketek]

Interesting! I'm Chinese and I never noticed that at all (partially because I'm not too interested in my own culture).

 

Definitely a question to ask Brandon.

[Kasimir]

Ketek, on 19 Apr 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

Interesting! I'm Chinese and I never noticed that at all (partially because I'm not too interested in my own culture).

Definitely a question to ask Brandon.

At the risk of derailment: huh, strange, so am I. Only noticed because Bao Gong shows are popular enough to make repeat comebacks on tv sooner or later, saw one and for a moment, thought, "Wait a sec--isn't that Nalan?"

[Ketek]

Ha! Where are you from anyway?! I'm from Malaysia.

[Kasimir]

Ketek, on 19 Apr 2014 - 10:46 PM, said:

Ha! Where are you from anyway?! I'm from Malaysia.

Singapore. Right across the Causeway, mate

[Ketek]

Well rust. 

[Arin]

I have wondered since WoR about Nalan. - Spoilers- Why does he want to kill KR? The Heralds left the KR in place and no Desolation came about. Why would the KR return bring a desolation? The Heralds return would bring a desolation. I would think the KR would have nothing to do with the desolations.

[Ketek]

We don't know for sure how Surgebinders (besides the Heralds) tie into the Desolations. My point was, Nalan knows things we do not about it - and for all we know he could have a very good reason for killing other Surgebinders.

[batabab]

I vote he is crazy. But I also am curious about what Lift said about him. I dont have the quote. She called him darkness and not a real person or something like that.

[Kasimir]

Ketek, on 19 Apr 2014 - 11:01 PM, said:

Well rust.

Had a feeling it would come to this...

In general though, regarding what Arin said--that's really why I think it would be just more interesting (although I admit that says nothing about the truth of a theory) to run with the idea that Nalan knows things we don't. My idea is that there's nothing inherent in the Oathpact that breaking it would make all the Heralds break--it's just a combination of the fact they've repeatedly subjected themselves to a neverending cycle of millenia of torture, war, and then finally decided to walk off--against their general inclinations (I'm assuming they're all generally Honourable people, capital H-honour intended here to indicate there must be something about them that had them agree to take up the burden and make the pact with Honour) and knowingly leaving a comrade, Taln, to suffer what they would not.

That has to leave some serious psychological effects and damage/baggage for any person to carry, and my suspicion is that's what we're seeing at work now. So I don't think they're automatically crazy--Nalan clearly has an agenda, and he's pursuing it. He might be doing so obsessively and with such focus that he excludes a lot of relevant factors (think Mr T.) but I don't think we should rule him out yet. (My current personal theory is that this increased focus on order is his touchstone--it's his personal reaction to that baggage.)

[Scrapingtons]

Title sounds like a rock band.