The Effects of Squirearchy

[maxal she/her]

Quick question on squires... Do you think squires could be turned into full KR? If you look at medieval knights, they all had squires with them, young boys in training, and eventually, if those young boys proved themselves worthy, they get to be made into knights by the king.

 

I have always regarded the KR squires as such: potential KR in training. In fact, I even suspect this was how one became a KR in the old days. You started as a squire and if it turns out you have what it takes, you get a spren, a bond and you became a full KR.

 

Thoughts?

[Aether he/him]

I don't think Squiredom inherently makes it more likely to become a KR. There are aspects of it, though, which would, such as learning of the Ideals and philosophy of the Order, and being influenced by the very kind of personality traits that attract Nahel Spren in the first place.

[kari-no-sugata]

I think that if Shallan were to have any squires, they would probably have the skills of a top-notch modern illusionist, but could do it with an infusion of Stormlight.

 

Currently, I expect Squires to only get access to Stormlight for enhanced strength, healing, etc that all Radiants get. I don't expect them to get any access to Surges. I guess we'll find out later exactly how it works but I don't see how the Squires could get access to Surges without a Nahel bond.

[Aleksiel]

If we accept squires get only the direct enchanced physical abilities from stormlight (strength, speed, agility, healing, etc), that will mean all squires are the same regardless of the Order of their Radiant. I somehow expect there to be differences not only in their personalities, but also in their abilities.

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

If we accept squires get only the direct enchanced physical abilities from stormlight (strength, speed, agility, healing, etc), that will mean all squires are the same regardless of the Order of their Radiant. I somehow expect there to be differences not only in their personalities, but also in their abilities.

Perhaps they get the unique ability of each order (Shallan's memories, Kal's battle sense, Skybreaker's crime-dar, etc)? If they get the surges, the Radiants kinda feel redundant to me.

[Aleksiel]

Perhaps they get the unique ability of each order (Shallan's memories, Kal's battle sense, Skybreaker's crime-dar, etc)? If they get the surges, the Radiants kinda feel redundant to me.

 

Hm, getting the passives, but not the surges. I like that, have an up-vote!

[kari-no-sugata]

I've had other thoughts on this on the past but now I think the Squires will be quite basic. They won't be "Radiants lite" but more like super-grunts

 

Consider Bridge 4 - they're already squires. But they have very distinct personalities. It would seem odd to me that they all start picking up the same personality-specific trait. Or Shallan's soldiers - they seem like a dead cert to become her Squires but would be bit weird if they all start showing super memory traits. Just seems like a poor fit somehow.

 

Of course, this might depend on where the "passives" come from. If it doesn't come from the Nahel bond but is combination of Stormlight + personality (or whatever they focus on in training) then I could see the Squires getting the "passives" (though weaker) for their particular personality rather than who they're a Squire to.

 

We've seen than Stormlight is transferable so Squires being able to use just enough Stormlight to glow doesn't require some whole new magic system. However, Surges specifically require spren so unless the Squires each have a spren then I don't see them using Surges.

 

I think Squires will be cool enough even if "all" they get is Stormlight. They'll be like an army of Pewterarms (from Mistborn).

[signspace13 he/him]

Perhaps they get the unique ability of each order (Shallan's memories, Kal's battle sense, Skybreaker's crime-dar, etc)? If they get the surges, the Radiants kinda feel redundant to me.

hmmm, yes that does make sense, heck why not go up a notch shallan's squires can capture images for her, just like she does but they can't use them like she does. but she can then has access to them through some sought of cognitive connection made via bond? yay for speculation!

 

I've had other thoughts on this on the past but now I think the Squires will be quite basic. They won't be "Radiants lite" but more like super-grunts

Consider Bridge 4 - they're already squires. But they have very distinct personalities. It would seem odd to me that they all start picking up the same personality-specific trait. Or Shallan's soldiers - they seem like a dead cert to become her Squires but would be bit weird if they all start showing super memory traits. Just seems like a poor fit somehow.

Of course, this might depend on where the "passives" come from. If it doesn't come from the Nahel bond but is combination of Stormlight + personality (or whatever they focus on in training) then I could see the Squires getting the "passives" (though weaker) for their particular personality rather than who they're a Squire to.

We've seen than Stormlight is transferable so Squires being able to use just enough Stormlight to glow doesn't require some whole new magic system. However, Surges specifically require spren so unless the Squires each have a spren then I don't see them using Surges.

I think Squires will be cool enough even if "all" they get is Stormlight. They'll be like an army of Pewterarms (from Mistborn).

hmm maybe or maybe you just only become a squire if you fit the bill, just like being a radiant. I think Gaz would sought of fit Shallan's spy like occupation, and maybe a one of her slaves (really I hate that word).

 

Edit: because butterfingers (typos)

Edited May 11, 2014 by signspace13

[SmurfAquamarineBodies he/him]

I still reckon that the Squires are the ones that make use of Cultivations Fabrial system. I'm thinking that the Surges granted by the Fabrials are not as powerful because they come from the Spren that cause/are attracted to the Surge, not from a Nahel bond Spren which is, I believe, more powerful.

[eloiv he/him]

What if a squire abuses his power or breaks the ideals of his order?When Kaladin broke his oaths he lost his powers,but squires won't have spren.So will they be monitored by KR or automatically lose their powers if they go bad?Even a good person when obtains power and authority may become corrupted or confused (for example Moash)and use them for his own reasons.Squires will have considerable power so I believe it is important that some safety messures will exist in order to prevent or stop that.

[Aleksiel]

I agree there's likely a corrective. I'd say their loyalty and devotion to the Radiant and his/her beliefs is the mechanism for it. If they break the spirit of the bond, the squire bond breaks as well. 

[SmurfAquamarineBodies he/him]

I would assume that the Bond they share with the Knight would mean that they couldn't act against the Knights 'Intent'.

Edit: Rusted ninjas!

Edited May 12, 2014 by CrystalBodies

[Aether he/him]

What if a squire abuses his power or breaks the ideals of his order?When Kaladin broke his oaths he lost his powers,but squires won't have spren.So will they be monitored by KR or automatically lose their powers if they go bad?

This made me briefly consider that the Squire abilities could possibly be limited by distance from their Radiant. If they could only use their abilities when close to the Radiant in question, assuming that the latter would be able to break the bond, there wouldn't be any danger of Squires going renegade.

 

However, Lopen is able to draw upon Stormlight at a time when Kaladin is most likely at Urithiru, around half-a-continent away, so possible abuse of the powers would have to be countered in some other way. Aleksiel's idea seems likely, though there is too little information on this to say for sure.

[Aether he/him]

I was asked in a PM why I though Lopen only just now gained the ability to draw upon Stormlight, when other Bridgemen such as Skar and Teft had been using it (unconsciously) for over a month at this point. Copy/pasting my answer here as it is relevant to the discussion:

Why it didn't happen with Lopen earlier? Because it fit the narrative and the pace better for it to happen just at that time.

The in-world reasons as to why it didn't happen earlier? Well, it might actually have. This is obviously his first conscious use of Stormlight, but both Teft and Skar (and probably other Bridgemen as well) seem oblivious to the fact that they have been using it actively (but unintentionally and unconsciously) for over a (Rosharan) month. Given, Lopen hasn't really participated directly in any combat related activity, but there have been situations where it would have been of use. For all we (and he) know(s), he might actually have used it unconsciously (at a very low consumption) for some time, but only now gained the ability to draw upon it intentionally.

However the precise mechanics are, it seems likely that it is a gradual and imprecise process. It might depend on the strength of the "Bond" with their Radiant (it seems likely given the Camaraderie of Bridge Four), but it is difficult to say for sure. It might also be the fact that Kaladin just had a "power-up", which suddenly made him able to expand his pool of Squires to include Lopen (and others).

[Crewleader Theron he/him]

Currently, I expect Squires to only get access to Stormlight for enhanced strength, healing, etc that all Radiants get. I don't expect them to get any access to Surges. I guess we'll find out later exactly how it works but I don't see how the Squires could get access to Surges without a Nahel bond.

Hey, maybe I explained this poorly.  What I was trying to say was that since the Windrunner squires get the enhanced strength, etc. that the Lightweavers get an increased ability to "be sneaky", like a real world illusionist.  Only, instead of having to rely heavily on props like real world illusionists, they would have this stormlight fueled super-sleight of hand.  They wouldn't be able to make somebody actually see something that they create, like Shallan can, but they might just exude an aura of trust, and would have access to jedi mind tricks type abilities that would allow them to manipulate people a little bit more than a normal person could-but in supporting a full radiant, could help pull off some pretty cool stuff.