Sirscott13 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 After rereading misborn I found the part about hemuralgic decay in inquisitor spikes. The power is diluting probably similar to the hemuralgic decay. That being that the power takes longer to store as in they can't store a lot of it at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Its also worth note that Brandon has stated that Feruchemy does come from somewhere in a similar way to Gaining Allomancy via lerasium beads. IE it can be acquired, Its just that at the time the story starts its inherent to the population of Terris in the same way that Allomancy was more likely in Nobles. That's weird though. We don't really notice signs of Feruchemy decay in the Terris, but allomancy has definitely been in decline in the nobles. And allomancy in Nobles has been introduced far more recently. Perhaps this ancient source of feruchemy has much potential for exploitation. We should take it up with Hoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 That's weird though. We don't really notice signs of Feruchemy decay in the Terris, but allomancy has definitely been in decline in the nobles. And allomancy in Nobles has been introduced far more recently. Perhaps this ancient source of feruchemy has much potential for exploitation. We should take it up with Hoid. Well Feruchemy doesn't really have much of a possible way to decay, Allomantic decay just results in you being able to use less Investiture from the gateway created by burning metals. Feruchemical power is just stored somewhere else, there's no extra power coming into the system so that power can't decay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Maybe allomancy gets weaker each generation because it is partially of ruin, but feruchemy does not since it is entirely of preservation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Maybe allomancy gets weaker each generation because it is partially of ruin, but feruchemy does not since it is entirely of preservation. Who wants to take this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Who wants to take this one? Oo! Oo! Sir! Me! Maybe allomancy gets weaker each generation because it is partially of ruin, but feruchemy does not since it is entirely of preservation. Sorry, I'm afraid you got 'em backwards. Allomancy (the end-positive Metallic Art) is entirely of Preservation. Feruchemy is the balance power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Well then it seems I have no idea what I am talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I guess you don't Allomancy is an end-positive system fueled by power siphoned externally from Preservation (except for atium burning) into the allomancer, using the atomic structure of a burned metal as a catalyst to manifest the power in specific ways, so as to not require usage of what you actually have in your body (preserving yourself, end-positive overall as you are always either at the natural level of investiture or more). Feruchemy can enhance certain aspects of yourself to varying degrees by pulling investiture stored in the metalmind out of the metal at freely controlled rates, making the duration and strength of enhancement variable but inversely proportional, it's main advantage over allomancy with it's more inflexible rate of enhancement. However, you must first remove those traits from yourself for a time. When treating your body as a closed system it is clearly experiencing deficit at first, but assuming you eventually tap all of your charges completely down the line you essentially exist with more than the average amount of innate investiture for a time, which averages out by the end of your life as 0 change (completely preserved, end-neutral overall). Hemalurgy is so complicated and gory I don't feel like explaining. The gore makes it obvious though XD Easily the most abusable one here though, by its very nature. I would assume decay of allomantic strength in nobility is due to that unnatural extra amount of investiture they recieved from their ancestors not being inherited 100% each generation, so whatever created feruchemy initially must have been done through a structural modification to the spiritual DNA of the Terris, no? If it is a physical substance, then there is abuse potential. If another shard appears on Scadrial and a new god metal created, with some alloy shenanigans we might even create new metallic arts somehow. Perhaps even other things. I would kill for a bead that makes me Awesome or creates Elantrians. Maybe even edible Divine Breath. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirscott13 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Feruchemy does dilute in the ability to store traits. Storing all or most of a trait for example instead of just a little bit. Like hemuralgy decays power, the inquisitors had to rest for a ridiculous amount of time to make up for the weak gold feruchemy. Meaning they can only store a little bit at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Feruchemy does dilute in the ability to store traits. Storing all or most of a trait for example instead of just a little bit. Like hemuralgy decays power, the inquisitors had to rest for a ridiculous amount of time to make up for the weak gold feruchemy. Meaning they can only store a little bit at a time. Hemalurgic decay wouldn't noticeably affect the Inquisitors, they were very practised at getting the spikes straight out of one person and into another. Gold just takes a lot of time to store, even if you could store 100% of your health it would still take you weeks of storing to heal the kind of wounds Inquisitors have to deal with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirscott13 Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Hemalurgic decay wouldn't noticeably affect the Inquisitors, they were very practised at getting the spikes straight out of one person and into another. Gold just takes a lot of time to store, even if you could store 100% of your health it would still take you weeks of storing to heal the kind of wounds Inquisitors have to deal with They didn't always have a fresh gold spike. They recycled them after inquisitors died. Not enough terrismen were captured and used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 They didn't always have a fresh gold spike. They recycled them after inquisitors died. Not enough terrismen were captured and used. That's happened but not very often, certainly not enough for it to explain the resting patterns of Inquisitors in Vins day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirscott13 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Hero of ages epigraph 36 “Spikes made from certain other metals steal Feruchemical abilities. For example, all of the original Inquisitors were given a pewter spike, which—after first being pounded through the body of a Feruchemist—gave the Inquisitor the ability to store up healing power. (Though they couldn’t do so as quickly as a real Feruchemist, as per the law of Hemalurgic decay.) This, obviously, is where the Inquisitors got their infamous ability to recover from wounds quickly, and was also why they needed to rest so much.” Excerpt From: Sanderson, Brandon. “The Mistborn Trilogy.” Tom Doherty Associates, 2006. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Which just shows that they needed to rest to store up Health, not necessarily because of the Hemalurgic decay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirscott13 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Which just shows that they needed to rest to store up Health, not necessarily because of the Hemalurgic decay. It says they couldn't store it up as quickly as a real feruchemist per law of hemuralgic decay! What more do you want? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 So did I, I just said that the difference in power is no where near enough to account for the amount they need to sleep, their other powers were so close to normal Allomancers strength as to be nearly indistinguishable there's no way that only their gold feruchemy was so decayed that they needed to rest for hours longer each day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tavash Shar Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I always assumed that the reset issue was due to the sheer number of spikes they had mangling their spirit webs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I always assumed that the reset issue was due to the sheer number of spikes they had mangling their spirit webs. Could be, I just think it's because of the amount of health needed to heal wounds as quickly as they do, they'd need to compound their health thousands of times in order to heal from wounds like they do, that'd take weeks of resting for each time they get injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 The Steel Ministry is convinced that feruchemy has successfully been bred out of the population, which is why Tindwyl was able to sneak into the breeding program, use her feruchemy in front of everyone, and not get caught, as is expressly stated in Well of Ascension. As has also been expressly stated in WoB, those pewter spikes have not been refreshed in quite some time and have suffered decay over the centuries. Regardless of other circumstances, any modern day Inquisitor would store health less quickly, to a great extent, than a normal feruchemist. Two things to remember, however: Not all Inquisitors had the same spikes, and spikes CAN be reused with much less effectiveness. The longer they are outside of a body, the more their power degrades. Source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmTheBeard Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Could be, I just think it's because of the amount of health needed to heal wounds as quickly as they do, they'd need to compound their health thousands of times in order to heal from wounds like they do, that'd take weeks of resting for each time they get injured. Aren't we actually pretty sure that Inquisitors can't compound? If they were made from Mistborn, and they received a gold spike, then they could, but do they know how, at least during the Final Empire? I think we have WoB saying that some of them may have figured it out. I doubt it's something TLR would have intentionally given them. I'd imagine that he wouldn't have given them Allomantic gold hemalurgically. It's pretty useless without compounding. Since they weren't compounding, it seems pretty obvious that in order to heal as instantaneously as they do, they must be spending incredible amounts of time storing health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Some confusion seems to arise from the fact that Mr. Sanderson himself uses "compound" to refer both to someone allomantically burning a feruchemical store, and the simple act of drawing out feruchemical traits faster than they were stored. Beard, you were referring to the former, and you're correct, most Inquisitors prolly could not do that. Voidus was referring (I presume) to the latter, and without otherwise endorsing his (her?) argument which I continue to disagree with, I confirm that he (she?) is using the term right; it's the term's own fault for being confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Yeah sorry I was using the other definition of compound. The Steel Ministry is convinced that feruchemy has successfully been bred out of the population, which is why Tindwyl was able to sneak into the breeding program, use her feruchemy in front of everyone, and not get caught, as is expressly stated in Well of Ascension. As has also been expressly stated in WoB, those pewter spikes have not been refreshed in quite some time and have suffered decay over the centuries. Regardless of other circumstances, any modern day Inquisitor would store health less quickly, to a great extent, than a normal feruchemist. That's an in character comment and so not necessarily demonstrating absolute truth, if they truly believed that Feruchemy had been bred out of the population then there wouldn't be any need for a lot of the measures to continue, such as making Terrismen eunuchs. It's possible I'm just not convinced that it's certain. Which WoB says that? If you can find it that'd be great and would probably do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmTheBeard Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Okay, I see where your comment makes sense with the other kind of compounding. Isn't that just tapping, though? I was under the impression that term was just something that Brandon used in a couple of interviews before AoL came out and the "rules" for Compounding were clearly defined. Before that, Compounding was specifically used by Sazed to describe the Twinborn kind of Compounding, though only with regards to how TLR used Atium. As for the existence of Feruchemists, I'm pretty sure that TLR didn't want to entirely exterminate the ability. It's just too useful. He was more concerned with making sure that the Feruchemical genes and the Allomantic genes never mixed. I personally think that the Keepers were way too optimistic about how secret they were. After all, the Kandra clearly knew of the existence of Keepers... I can't imagine that TLR didn't. He might not have been able to reliably find one, but I'm pretty sure he knew they were still around. While it isn't obvious that Marsh had a gold spike from the beginning, it seems likely that he did. Also, I'm not entirely sure where this thread is going. Is it a discussion of the powers of Full Feruchemist/Mistborn individuals ("another Lord Ruler," as Vin would say)? Is it a discussion of hemalurgy and/or the composition of Inquisitors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirscott13 Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 The Steel Ministry is convinced that feruchemy has successfully been bred out of the population, which is why Tindwyl was able to sneak into the breeding program, use her feruchemy in front of everyone, and not get caught, as is expressly stated in Well of Ascension. As has also been expressly stated in WoB, those pewter spikes have not been refreshed in quite some time and have suffered decay over the centuries. Regardless of other circumstances, any modern day Inquisitor would store health less quickly, to a great extent, than a normal feruchemist. Source. Thank you! This is what I've been trying to say. The act of storing an attribute like health, gets more difficult as the spikes power decays. From this can we go back and assume that feruchemical power dilutes in a similar manner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Thank you! This is what I've been trying to say. The act of storing an attribute like health, gets more difficult as the spikes power decays. From this can we go back and assume that feruchemical power dilutes in a similar manner? You could but all evidence is to the contrary, Feruchemists are still able to store 100% of their weight at a time. So either the dilution is absolutely tiny or Feruchemy doesn't dilute through the generations like Allomancy does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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