Jezrien is Nohadon!

[grinachu]

There is WOB where he was asked if Nohadon was still alive and he asked the questioner what made them ask that question. That made me think about sharing my favourite crackpot theory:

Jezrien is Nohadon. Or rather, Nohadon was Jezrien masquerading as the king of Alethkar seeking to lead and inspire the people of Roshar. 

 

My instinct comes from the similarities between the description of the two men as well as their emotions. 

 

'“Jezrien?”

The figure in white and blue glanced toward him. Even after all these centuries, Jezrien looked young, like a man barely into his thirtieth year. His short black beard was neatly trimmed, though his once-fine clothing was scorched and stained with blood. He folded his arms behind his back as he turned to Kalak.

“What is this, Jezrien?” Kalak asked. “Where are the others?”

“Departed.” Jezrien’s voice was calm, deep, regal. Though he hadn’t worn a crown in centuries, his royal manner lingered. He always seemed to know what to do. “You might call it a miracle. Only one of us died this time.”

 

There, in Jezrien’s eyes, Kalak saw anguish and grief. Perhaps even cowardice.

 

(WOK, Prelude)

 

“I don’t know what to do, old friend,” a voice said from the side. Dalinar turned to see a youthful man in regal white and gold robes, walking with his hands clasped before him, hidden by voluminous sleeves. He had dark hair pulled back in a braid and a short beard that came to a point. Gold threads were woven into his hair and came together on his forehead to form a golden symbol. The symbol of the Knights Radiant.

Dalinar felt himself grow short of breath. The man himself. Nohadon. The great king. He was real. Or he had been real. This man was younger than Dalinar had imagined him, but that humble, yet regal bearing… yes, it was right.

 

Nohadon leaned over the railing. He stared at the fallen, an expression of deep grief-and trouble-on his face. It was so strange to see the man like this. He was so young. Dalinar had never imagined such insecurity, such torment, in him.

(Chapter 60, WOK)

Edited April 6, 2014 by grinachu

[NeutroniumAlchemist]

But Jezrien was herald of the windrunners and he could only be on Roshar during desolations, not in between. Diden't the Knight Radients exist during the time of Nohadon?

[Wrath]

But Jezrien was herald of the windrunners and he could only be on Roshar during desolations, not in between. Diden't the Knight Radients exist during the time of Nohadon?

Surgebinders existed but supposedly the KR were founded after Nohadon had written The Way of Kings since they took their inspiration from it. But the point about Desolations stands since if Dalinar's interpretation of his vision is to be believed Nohadon's great deeds took place following a Desolation that killed 9/10s of the human population.

[RShara]

So if the KR weren't founded yet, then it would be before the Heralds abandoned their oaths, which means if Jezrien had stayed, 1.  The other Heralds would have known about it, and 2.  Another Desolation might have started (if all the Heralds stayed).

[grinachu]

we have a great deal of contradictory information about the founding of the Knights' Radiant and the timing of the vision that Dalinar has: from in world sources.  To summarise

 

1. Nohadon founded the Knight's Radiant

 

2. Nohadon was an ordinary man, not a Radiant. 

 

3. Ishi'Elin founded the Knight's Radiant. 

 

4. Nohadon was bonded to a Honorspren. 

 

5. The Way of Kings was the inspiration for the Knights' Radiant. 

 

In the midst of all this contradictory information, who is to say what is true and what is not? 

 

Small observation: Jezrien wears blue and white in the Prelude to the Stormlight Archive which is the same colour as the Kholin princedom even today. Kholinar, the capital of Alethkar, was also Nohadon's capital during Dalinar's vision. 

[Patrick Star]

I think that the Kholin house wearing Blue and White is more a matter of Vorinism than of anything else.  Gavilar was very devout and found a voidsphere and tried to bring desolation back to the world likely would have made his house colors the same as those of the leader of the Almighty's Heralds.

 

I don't think that Nohadon was bonded to an Honorspren (if anything else, he was a bondsmith).   I got the impression that Nohadon had associated with Surgebinders (as of Dalinar's vision), and knew them and their spren well enough to be able to come to the conclusion that Honorspren are the best judges of character.

 

As to the founding of the KR, Nohadon and Ishi'Elin likely worked together to create the orders.  It's possible that The Way of Kings did publish during Nohadon's lifetime and inspired humanity to begin building the KR.

[Numb]

I don't think we have that much contradictory information. The confusion I believe comes from the different between the Knights Radiant as an organisation and the Knights Radiant as a way to control Nahel bonding. Nohadon could have very well formed the oaths required for the bonding where as Ishi'Elin formed the organisation known as Knights Radiant. The one doesn't contradict the other.

[Meg]

The idea that Nohadon == Jezrien doesn't seem likely to me.

Nohadon said to Karm (aka Dalinar):

When the Heralds next return, what will they find?

"The Heralds" ... not the other Heralds or my fellow Heralds. That quote is, too, from the vision where the quotes from the OP come from. And I think my quote is contary to the idea of the OP.

[Robot Aztec]

Whatif Jezrien is Nohadon's daddy? Nohadaddy!

[Halpe]

I think it is more likely that these are simply two similar characters.

 

Also, as far as contradictions go, the history/mythology of Nohadon and the KR is so old that it is very muddled. The actual history is likely different from any of the stories, much like the Arthurian myths.

 

Nohadon's ordinary man/ruler status is also similar to the Gilgamesh story in ancient mesopatamia where a common man with great *insert positive leadership quality here* becomes ruler through. The same line could be drawn between him and Arthur.

[Leuthie]

The Desolations ended when the Heralds walked away. The vision of Nohadon was in the aftermath of a Desolation. Jezrien would have returned to That Place at that time.

Similar characters only. Young, regal kings with short beards aren't an uncommon trope, and when myths stand before you, it wouldn't be all that strange for them to be inspiration for fashion and bearing. Nohadon looks like Jezrien because why the hell not?

[Wrath]

Whoops, misread the post I quoted.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Wrath

[Seloun]

we have a great deal of contradictory information about the founding of the Knights' Radiant and the timing of the vision that Dalinar has: from in world sources.  To summarise

 

1. Nohadon founded the Knight's Radiant

 

2. Nohadon was an ordinary man, not a Radiant. 

 

3. Ishi'Elin founded the Knight's Radiant. 

 

4. Nohadon was bonded to a Honorspren. 

 

5. The Way of Kings was the inspiration for the Knights' Radiant. 

 

In the midst of all this contradictory information, who is to say what is true and what is not?

 

There are problematic issues with Dalinar's visions in general (in particular, since they are reactive to Dalinar's actions, they cannot by definition be the literal truth); however for this post I will assume they are correct in general terms.

 

I'm not really sure how those are really contradictions. I don't think any source states that Nohadon actually founded the Knights Radiant (it's in-world speculation). Nothing states that Nohadon was bound to an Honorspren (if Dalinar's vision is accurate, Nohadon was probably a Surgebinder, but of what type is not clear; if he was really bound to an Honorspren he was being pretty cheeky).

 

It's also worth noting the statement about Nohadon being an 'ordinary man' is in contrast to being a Radiant:

 

 

“Bah. It was written by the Lost Radiants!”

 

“They didn’t write it. It was their inspiration. Nohadon, an ordinary man, was its author.”

 

which is trivially true given that Nohadon lived before there were Radiants; this statement is also not from any source besides Dalinar's (limited) understanding of history.

 

The rest of the points are pretty consistent. Nohadon lived before the KR, and the KR used The Way of Kings are a model. It's also quite possible Nohadon introduced an organization (without magical-law backing, but an ordinary organization) after unifying Roshar governing how (morally) Surgebinding should be used. Ishi could then have provided the mechanics of translating Nohadon's ideals into (meta)physical laws, thus canonizing the Orders into real, tangible structures.

 

It's worth noting though that there does seem to be a major contradiction in the Nohadon vision - if it's really a Desolation, why aren't the Heralds around?

[FirstSelector]

The Heralds have to leave soon following the end of a Desolation (though their departure is a better way of defining "end") or another Desolation starts.  However, not all of the Heralds have to return, as they have discovered by sending only Talenel back.  Thus, this idea is consistent with what we now know about the mechanics of Desolations.

 

However, it begs the following question - why didn't Jezrien return?  Did the Heralds figure out that they only needed to send one, and thus allowed Jezrien to stay away and set up a better method of rule?  Did they all agree to it?  There is something fishy going on in the Second-to-Last Desolaion; I suspect foul play and that at least one of the Heralds betrayed the others.  Perhaps this is the event that set it off.

 

In any case, this is a plausible idea.