TheHeadHancho Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 As we see in the Oathbringer epilogue, Hoid appears to bond a cryptic (Elhokar’s to be exact). But Hoid is also very weird. It is relatively common knowledge that spren are only able to bond with someone who has cracks in their spirit web, which allows the spren to “slip in” and meld the Radiant and spren’s Spiritual aspects into one. Another important fact is that Hoid has crazy healing abilities. Brandon has literally described it as “healing the soul itself.” Obviously Hoid would have healed any spiritual wound instantly, or at least within a few days since he can repress this ability. So how is Hoid able to bond this spren? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) The "cracks" are necessary in one form or another for pretty much any use of investiture. It's how the power gets inside you, not just how you bond a spren. Hoid uses all kinds of investiture. The power obviously flows through his spiritweb. The Spren should be able to bond in the same way. Don't think of those cracks as a wound. They're more stress fractures. Everything is still whole but it leaks. Otherwise healing the soul would stop powers from working. Edited July 22, 2018 by Calderis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Stormlight itself can do spiritual healing, as seen when Kaladin heals from being cut by Szeth's Blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 42 minutes ago, CrazyRioter said: Stormlight itself can do spiritual healing, as seen when Kaladin heals from being cut by Szeth's Blade. Yes and no. A Radiant can push Stormlight to heal the soul like Kaladin did. Someone with an Honorblade wouldn't be capable of the same. Quote Brandon Sanderson A full-blown Radiant can heal almost anything (cut from a Shardblade included) because of the way the magic works--their soul is literally bonded to investiture, and it suffuses them in such a way that even the soul is very resilient to damage. Honorblades are what you'd consider a "prototype" for what eventually happened with Shardblades. An Honorblade can be used by anyone, without need for oaths, which makes them very dangerous--but since the bond isn't as deep, they are far less efficient. They use more stormlight, for example, and can't heal to the extent that a Radiant can. So the difference is not in the device that did the damage, but in the method using to heal. Over the course of the first two book, the reader should be able to subtly pick out differences from what Szeth says is possible(in more than just healing) and what Kaladin experiences. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Yeah I probably should've worded that better, thank you for clarifying my bad wording. My point is that Hoid's ability to heal the soul is not unique to him, though his version may be even stronger than a Radiant's, and that soul-healing clearly doesn't do anything with the spiritual cracks that allow the use of Investiture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 I think there is a qualitative difference between Spiritual Damage and Spiritual Cracks needed for the Bond (or most any other Investiture). Damage is relative to your own (current) self-image, as evidenced by how it may or may not Heal away scars (depending on how much you incorporate them into your identity). Cracks, but contrast, have more to do with the overall Shape of the spiritweb, and per WOB is a much more abstract philosophic definition. Kaladin's "crack" is more or less a case of chronic Depression, but per WOB it becomes more a philosophic question of whether that is "damage" or just a feature of his personality. I think the short answer is that it Cant work that way, or else Gold Compounding would risk "healing" away your allowmancy. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulthwithian Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 Another argument that you can make here is that Wit's mind is developing fractures due to the stress of avoiding Odium. Nothing he can't deal with, but this is both subtly and not-so-subtly pointed out in the Stormlight Archive. His personality is markedly different there than elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmnsquirtle Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Ulthwithian said: Another argument that you can make here is that Wit's mind is developing fractures due to the stress of avoiding Odium. Nothing he can't deal with, but this is both subtly and not-so-subtly pointed out in the Stormlight Archive. His personality is markedly different there than elsewhere. How is this pointed out in SA? I guess I could see his personality being slightly different, but since we haven't gotten a viewpoint from him, it seems like he really isn't that different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanghur Rahl Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 Plus, this is Hoid we’re talking about. He behaves very differently in pretty much every book. Playing different roles is kind of his forte. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashspren Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 According to thisWoB, it’s a tradition that the KR are “broken,” but maybe not a necessity... Quote Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]Adolin and his sword that wants to kind of wake up a little bit. Most of the Knights Radiant have some sort of break in their mind, mental <a little> problem. Where Adolin appears to be the person in Stormlight that's most comfortable with himself. Is that going to cause a problem, or is maybe the fact that he, at least in his mind, murdered Sadeas, going to help bring that to fruition or give us a way towards something like that?Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]Let's, first off, say I'm not going to repeat this one because it's super spoilery. So let's try to talk around the spoilers.In the Stormlight Archive, there is a tradition among the Knights Radiant that certain traumas and/or psychological handicaps are effective in drawing the attention of a spren. I haven't actually said if that is true or if that's [just] a tradition of theirs. But there is a tradition among the Knights Radiant. that they have noticed something consistent.Does it mean that you have to in order to be a Knight Radiant? Well, there is somebody that I would call extremely psychologically well-adjusted, that by the end of the third book is well on the way to Knighthood.There is something going on there, they are noticing something true. But it might not be as exclusionary as they think it is.Footnote: Brandon clarified this question in this exchange.https://wob.coppermind.net/events/355/#e10453 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AonEne Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 3 hours ago, tmnsquirtle said: How is this pointed out in SA? I guess I could see his personality being slightly different, but since we haven't gotten a viewpoint from him, it seems like he really isn't that different. I don't see him as being all that different either, but I would like to point out that besides all the times characters have seen him, we have gotten his VPs in the SA epilogues and in the Elantris tenth edition extra pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recneps Posted August 1, 2018 Report Share Posted August 1, 2018 He acts quite similarly to Wit in Secret History. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Before Pancakes Posted August 1, 2018 Report Share Posted August 1, 2018 On 7/23/2018 at 10:54 AM, Quantus said: I think the short answer is that it Cant work that way, or else Gold Compounding would risk "healing" away your allowmancy. I don’t know if Allomancy is the best example here. You get access after traumatic events; but allomancy itself is built into spiritual DNA. surgebinding seems to be something you can get regardless, as it’s an alteration that can happen any time as long as you can get the spren bond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Investor Posted August 1, 2018 Report Share Posted August 1, 2018 Also keep in mind that Hoid likely has more control over his spiritual and cognitive aspects than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted August 1, 2018 Report Share Posted August 1, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Journey Before Pancakes said: I don’t know if Allomancy is the best example here. You get access after traumatic events; but allomancy itself is built into spiritual DNA. surgebinding seems to be something you can get regardless, as it’s an alteration that can happen any time as long as you can get the spren bond. both (per WoB, I think) the Nahel Bond and the "Snapping" requirement to activate a persons innate Allomancy are operating on that same principle of needing "cracks" in the spiritweb for the new bits to attach to. EDIT: Found the WOB, it says they operate on similar concepts, but I think implies that on Scadrial the system does the active Snapping but on Roshar the Spren are "looking for a specific thing that is similar to what Snapping does." Edited August 1, 2018 by Quantus Found WOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted August 1, 2018 Report Share Posted August 1, 2018 @Quantus there are others. Quote Questioner Why, in your books, are your characters so often, per say - before they get the powers they become broken first. Brandon Sanderson There is a narrative reason and an in-world reason. The narrative reason is characters in pain are more interesting to write about. This is just a rule of thumb for writing. Find the person whose in the most trouble, things are going the worst for and that's generally your easiest character. In the stories, the actual Cosmere, the mechanics of the magic finds, this is only one way to describe it - its not the only way - might not be one hundred per cent accurate but it's an easy metaphor, cracks in the soul allow the magic to seep in and that's how you end up with a lot of the different magic systems. source Quote Faera So in Mistborn, you have to be 'snapped' to awaken allomantic abilities. Similarly in Stormlight, you have to be 'broken' to release surgebinding powers. Are there any connections between these two requirements? Does it have anything to do with the 3 realms? Brandon Sanderson Yes and yes. source Quote Jeremy (paraphrased) We know that Mistborn needed to Snap, and Surgebinders needed have the cracks in their souls filled. But what about the people in Warbreaker or Elantris? Is cracking and snapping only required on certain worlds? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) This is universal to the cosmere; however, in certain magic systems / on certain worlds, this is easier than others. source Snapping and being broken are the same mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Before Pancakes Posted August 1, 2018 Report Share Posted August 1, 2018 (edited) Snapping and being broken are essentially the same mechanic, but allomantic powers and nahel bonds are still fairly different. The potential for allomancy is hereditary through spiritual DNA, and requires a snapping to occur; but the spiritual aspect that lets you do it in the first place is still a part of your spiritual self. A nahel bond on the other hand is something that gets added to your spirit web as you develop the bond, so I would think it’s more susceptible to be healed away from you; if healing were to work for such things. Edited August 1, 2018 by Journey Before Pancakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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