[OB] Fabrials as Traps

[Quantus he/him]

This came up in another thread, and I wanted to see what peoples thoughts were but didnt want to derail that thread. It was mentioned that Syl dislikes Fabrials because she hates that the spren inside have been trapped.  But, unless I missed something, I don think that they have to be innately traps like that, and more than courtship and diplomacy have to be acts of aggression or War.  I mean, just because Rosharan Fabrials are currently the equivalent of Caveman Courtship (ie. "Hit in head with Club. Drag back to cave. Ugg.") doesnt mean it's not possible to accomplish it with mutual respect, right?  Strikes me as a strong possibility that the really advanced Fabrial tech they've lost would have involved a much more diplomatic relationship with the Spren.  Granted I doubt that would ever work with an Unmade or any similarly hostile Spren, but for the majority of them you could probably turn the Bait part of the process into an Offer. 

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

There's some evidence for this in OB. Oathgates are fabrials too. They do not look like trapped entities to me. I do wonder what type of spren they are though.

[StrikerEZ he/him]

@Quantus The main problem with modern day fabrials on Roshar is that it's less caveman courtship and more man domesticating/taming the horse. They're taking an "animal" and forcing it to do some task for them. With true spren, I'm sure that they can willingly bond to fabrials (which is how I think ancient fabrials work). I can't see lesser spren ever being able to make fabrials akin to the ancient ones because they are simply not cognizant enough to make that decision. 

Edited July 20, 2018 by StrikerEZ

[Calderis he/him]

As @StrikerEZ just said, I think it's two separate kinds of things. Based off intellect. Ancient fabrials with sapient spren able to bind themselves by an agreement. We see this with the Oathgates and with Soulcaster Fabrials.

Modern fabrials... I think you're both right. They are drawn in and trapped, and the trap is a harness in which the Spren is put to work. 

I think that modern fabrial science could enslave a True Spren, but a lesser spren cannot accept the agreement of an ancient fabrial. As the Stormfather himself says, oaths are the marks of True Spren, and the lesser spren lack free will. 

Quote

There are no foolish oaths. All are the mark of men and true spren over beasts and subspren. The mark of intelligence, free will, and choice.

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Calderis

[Quantus he/him]

OK, I can get behind that. I was considering it a practical distinction that wouldnt really matter because the more hostile method had clearly been used on more advanced Spren too (well, on an UnMade), but I can accept that the "subspren" are too animalistic, so the distinction between a hostile trap and loving domestication is more a matter of outside perspective.  Especially with that Stormfather quote if they see that as the guiding distinction.  That helps me with my Shardplate ruminations.