SzethIsBadAsHell he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 While reading another thread something dawned on me . People were speaking on how shallan saw cryptics before she bonded them . That is a big error . For one we know that Shallan has been bonded to pattern for years . Yet when she took a mental picture of Teravangion she saw two cryptics standing behind him . Pattern has been her spren since she was a child . She should know him . Were the Cryptics their evaluating Teravangion or perhaps adfrotagia? They are not there for Shallan . I can’t believe this question has never been. Asked before ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 I think they were just keeping an eye on the Diagram. If he were to be a Radiant I'd call either Bondsmith (in a twisted Gavilar type way) or Elsecaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SzethIsBadAsHell he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 Hmmm I thought that the Diagram is like a gigantic cryptographers dream. I would think a Cryptic would to bond Teravangion cause next to Hoid , he has some of the juiciest truths to tell ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmikey357 he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 It might hinder his efforts at selling out the human race. Every time he lies his Cryptic would be humming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SzethIsBadAsHell he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 I don’t think cryptics care too much about killing. They only like lies and truths disguised as lies. Besides as u put it the diagram would keep his spren humming lol. 4 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said: It might hinder his efforts at selling out the human race. Every time he lies his Cryptic would be humming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmikey357 he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 I'm not saying the Cryptics themselves would try to prevent Taravanginan from doing his thing, just that he cannot tell lies without his lie detector going off. The degree of difficulty in being deceitful and devious increases exponentially. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SzethIsBadAsHell he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 18 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said: I'm not saying the Cryptics themselves would try to prevent Taravanginan from doing his thing, just that he cannot tell lies without his lie detector going off. The degree of difficulty in being deceitful and devious increases exponentially. Lol that would be funny as rust . Every time he opens his mouth a buzzing goes off mid sentence . I would die laughing . However no one can hear the spren but Teravangion unless the spren wants others to hear him . Could u imagine when Szeth confronted Teravangion about Kaladin “ I fought a windrunner. I am not truth less.” “ it just occurred to me “buzzzzzz” one of the other seven honorblades are “buzzzzzzzz” missing “ “ Teravangion ponders “ what in the storms is that incessant buzzing “ his spren “ A lieeeeeeeeeeeeeee” Teravangion “ will you shut the flaming up “ can’t u see I’m trying to lie ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 22 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said: However no one can hear the spren but Teravangion unless the spren wants others to hear him . Cryptics aren't able to go invisible. I don't think this is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalaDANG he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 I think that the fact that we have to remember is that the cryptics were following HER around. Not Taravangian. In the book, Shallan is trying to get away from them, and she keeps turning around and drawing and seeing them. They follow her into her room, and the hospital room, and if I remember right, she even draws them surrounding her bed reaching out to touch her. It sounds like they are a lot more interested in Shallan than Taravangian because of her lies. I mean, someone who not only lies to others with great frequency, but also lies to herself in an attempt to keep herself sane? That sounds like it would be Cryptic scholar GOLD. Though it is possible that the Cryptics were interested in the lies of Taravangian as well, I don't really see it going that way with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 21 minutes ago, KalaDANG said: I think that the fact that we have to remember is that the cryptics were following HER around. Not Taravangian. In the book, Shallan is trying to get away from them, and she keeps turning around and drawing and seeing them. I don't think so. The first time that she sees one is in the presence of Taravangian. She doesn't see them again for weeks, maybe months, and only then they only seem to take interested right she starts to reawaken Pattern. I don't think any of them were there for her. She was already bonded to a Cryptic of her own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Before Pancakes Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, KalaDANG said: I think that the fact that we have to remember is that the cryptics were following HER around. Not Taravangian. In the book, Shallan is trying to get away from them, and she keeps turning around and drawing and seeing them. They follow her into her room, and the hospital room, and if I remember right, she even draws them surrounding her bed reaching out to touch her. It sounds like they are a lot more interested in Shallan than Taravangian because of her lies. I mean, someone who not only lies to others with great frequency, but also lies to herself in an attempt to keep herself sane? That sounds like it would be Cryptic scholar GOLD. Though it is possible that the Cryptics were interested in the lies of Taravangian as well, I don't really see it going that way with him. You would think someone who has the potential to hold extreme amounts of knowledge (like enough to impress a shard with his foresight... that's pretty crazy). Big Papa T doesn't even know the truth behind what he said. He lies to himself almost every day out of pure ignorance. IDK how cryptics work; but I could see that being very interesting for them. Edited July 16, 2018 by Journey Before Pancakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SzethIsBadAsHell he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Calderis said: Cryptics aren't able to go invisible. I don't think this is correct. Several times when Kaladin was trapped with Shallan in the shattered plains he saw her talking to herself . He never once heard pattern . Adolin only heard pattern after Shallan introduced him . Yes he is a pattern but most people overlook him and none hear him until he wants them too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaladin Zahel Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 Hmm, interesting. Perhaps Pattern's apparent lack of invisibility is all in Shallan's head like the slave brands for Kaladin. Maybe she has such hate and fear for her truths surrounding Pattern that she causes a paranoia for herself that isn't real at all. Do we have an example from someone else's perspective of them seeing Pattern unpermitted? And no, Syl does not count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 I personally think that Mr T is far to much of an "Ends Justifies the Means" sort of guy for him to ever successfully speak the First Ideal, and if he did there's a reasonably chance he'd violate it and kill his spren the first day he woke up too "Smart". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 People don't hear him because he stays quiet. All of the times that Kaladin saw her speaking, she was in a position to not think she could be heard, and we have multiple instances of people hearing pattern. Most notably the slaves in Tvlakv's wagons during the highstorm. He can be subtle, but he's not capable of hiding. He makes actual sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalaDANG he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 Yeah. Usually Pattern hides on her dress somewhere. But he can't go invisible. I think it's supposed to be because he is more in the physical realm than the cognitive realm. Shallan can actually touch him and feel him, but only just barely. There's a spectrum of how much of a spren manifests in the physical realm. When the A-Team is trapped in Shadesmar and on the ship, Kaladin attracts the windspren and they manifest on the cognitive side, which really shocks the spren crew because, as the captain says, windspren exist almost completely in the Physical realm, so they never see them. There's also the opposite, where spren exist more in the cognitive realm, like Wyndle. That's why he is surprised that Lift is able to touch him, and says she must be partially in the cognitive realm as well. So Pattern and Cryptics must be more towards the physical realm when they manifest there, allowing him to be touched, but also making it impossible for him to just go invisible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SzethIsBadAsHell he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 1 hour ago, KalaDANG said: Yeah. Usually Pattern hides on her dress somewhere. But he can't go invisible. I think it's supposed to be because he is more in the physical realm than the cognitive realm. Shallan can actually touch him and feel him, but only just barely. There's a spectrum of how much of a spren manifests in the physical realm. When the A-Team is trapped in Shadesmar and on the ship, Kaladin attracts the windspren and they manifest on the cognitive side, which really shocks the spren crew because, as the captain says, windspren exist almost completely in the Physical realm, so they never see them. There's also the opposite, where spren exist more in the cognitive realm, like Wyndle. That's why he is surprised that Lift is able to touch him, and says she must be partially in the cognitive realm as well. So Pattern and Cryptics must be more towards the physical realm when they manifest there, allowing him to be touched, but also making it impossible for him to just go invisible. So if pattern can’t turn Invisible how could Shallan see the two cryptics and Jasnah and Taravangion couldn’t ? Are the two Crytics still in the cognitive Realm and looking at Teravangion and Shallan ball of light . That’s weird?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlick Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 Maybe her taking the memory captured them in shadesmar. Kind of like a bleed through effect. She is able to see into the realm for soulcasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 1 hour ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said: So if pattern can’t turn Invisible how could Shallan see the two cryptics and Jasnah and Taravangion couldn’t ? Are the two Crytics still in the cognitive Realm and looking at Teravangion and Shallan ball of light . That’s weird?!? If they were in the physical realm, they would have appeared as the floating sphere patterns, or flat on the walls. The fact that she saw them with pattern heads in their glass robe bodies means she was viewing into the Cognitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 On 7/16/2018 at 6:07 PM, SzethIsBadAsHell said: So if pattern can’t turn Invisible how could Shallan see the two cryptics and Jasnah and Taravangion couldn’t ? Are the two Crytics still in the cognitive Realm and looking at Teravangion and Shallan ball of light . That’s weird?!? A nahel bond between spren and human seems to "anchor" a spren to the location of their human. Syl+Pattern are natively from the Cognitive Realm, seemingly only able to glimpse the Cognitive manifestations of what happens in the Physical Realm, but when they bond Kaladin+Shallan they become tied to their location. When their human is in the physical realm they are largely in the physical realm and seem like they can only wander so far from their human's physical location, also they have a limited ability to physically interact with things. When their human goes to Shademar, they follow them to the cognitive realm and can no longer meaningfully interact with the physical realm. This is strongly implied when Kaladin asks Syl to deliver a message from him to Dalinar (while they are stuck in Shadesmar), but she cannot comply. As for the Cryptics that Shallan saw: I think they see/hear/experience more than just a glowing ball of light. I think if they focus they can "hear" the thoughts or conversations of a particular soul. I believe Shallan was able to get feelings or impressions of individual souls in Shademar when she touched them and focused on them. I imagine those Cryptics were doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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