Who would win in a main character brawl? Vin, Kaladin or Vivenna?

[Iron foot]

I would say the arena space would be a city. A open space would give kal a unfair advantage I think.

Please say why you think who!

[RShara she/her]

Here're a few fight threads for ya. The first one is Kelsier, but he and Vin are close enough in power level that it should be about the same.

Edit: Found another

 

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by RShara

[Weltall]

Without dipping into the many previous threads on the topic and just going off the top of my head, I think we can't really judge Vivenna right now. We've had a lot of discussions on Awakeners versus other magic users and while there are some potential combat applicatons that could help her in a fight, we don't know enough about her Heightening level, her fighiting experience (aside from 'it's improved since we last saw her' or what her sword can do, to fairly judge her. But unless it does something spectacular, she's probably not going to be able to overcome the common problem that BioChroma isn't really a combat-oriented magic system while the other two are.

Which then gets to the issue that comes up whenever 'Mistborn versus Surgebinder' arises: Does the mistborn get to do their favorite trick of stabbing their opponent in the back before they're ready or do they actually have to fight with some degree of fairness? Brandon's generally come down on the side of mistborn due to them being willing to fight dirty, Even in a more straight-up fight in an arena environment, Vin can use sneakiness, manipulate the environment and create opportunities to get the drop on Kaladin. Put them in an open battlefield though and as you say, Kaladin suddenly looks a lot better due to the environment favoring his experiences and powers while disadvantaging Vin. Then there's the question of what resources the parties get in terms of metal vials or infused spheres, and which metals in Vin's case. For example, does she get any atium? Lots of factors at work here.

Oh, and one of Brandon's own explanations for why he favored Vin over Kaladin in one question was that Kaladin's not very good at hurting people who aren't threatening to hurt people he cares about. So, what's the motivation of the parties? Is Vin going to be going all-out? Is Kaladin going to be holding back, whether deliberately or unconsciously?

[Barbarian AL he/him]

Vin. Though kelsier is too ruthless to be overlooked. Vivenna doesn’t stand a chance! 

[Herowannabe he/him]

Vin would definitely win, for all the reasons @Weltall laid out, plus one important fact that he overlooked: Vin has ranged attacks. She can push/pull coins at her opponents, and unless they have specially prepared to face a Mistborn they are likely to have bits of metal on them that Vin can manipulate. 

If you somehow managed to balance out the various magical powers so that they were all on even footing, I would still put my money on Vin. She’s a survivor, and far more ruthless that Vivenna or even Kaladin. She would do whatever it took and pull out all the stops to win. 

Vivenna is an interesting choice for an opponent in this situation (she’s not really much of a fighter, I think. Vasher might be on more even footing with the other two), because of her ability to awaken. If she can manage to get in touching range of either of the other two she could awaken their clothes with a command to strangle things, and there’s nothing that Vin or Kaladin could really do about it. Vin’s mistcloak in particular would be nasty when awakened. The difficulty would come in actually getting close enough to awaken their clothes though, especially since both of Vivenna’s opponents can fly but she can’t. 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Herowannabe
Fixed typos

[Ashspren]

But, like you said @Herowannabe, Vin can do ranged attacks. Vivenna would need to be touching Vin’s mistcloak to awaken it.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Ashspren

[Herowannabe he/him]

8 hours ago, Ashspren said:

But, like you said @Herowannabe, Vin can do ranged attacks. Vivenna would need to be touching Vin’s mistcloak to awaken it.

Exactly. My point was that she was an interesting choice in that if she could get close enough to touch her opponents it would be an auto-win for her (or nearly so, depending on whether pewter/Stormlight would be enough to keep Vin/Kaladin alive and give them enough strength to rip the clothing free), but it’s near impossible for Vivenna to get close to either opponent unless they wish it. 

[Ashspren]

5 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

Exactly. My point was that she was an interesting choice in that if she could get close enough to touch her opponents it would be an auto-win for her (or nearly so, depending on whether pewter/Stormlight would be enough to keep Vin/Kaladin alive and give them enough strength to rip the clothing free), but it’s near impossible for Vivenna to get close to either opponent unless they wish it. 

Oh, got it. Thanks for the clarification. And I agree— unless, of course, Vivenna walks in with storming Nightblood. Now THAT would be an interesting fight.

[+robardin he/him]

On 6/3/2018 at 9:03 AM, Ashspren said:

Oh, got it. Thanks for the clarification. And I agree— unless, of course, Vivenna walks in with storming Nightblood. Now THAT would be an interesting fight.

But didn't Nightblood straight out say (and I suppose this this an Oathbringer spoiler), 

Spoiler

"You know, Vivenna never drew me, not even once?"

Though I do wonder - is there any WoB type musings from the author himself on how Nightblood would interact with seriously "gray area" characters (who admit to themselves at point or another that they may have "gone too far") like Kelsier, Rashek, even Dalinar, if Nightblood were tossed at them at just the "right" (wrong?) times of their story arcs?

[+robardin he/him]

On 6/2/2018 at 6:28 PM, Ashspren said:

But, like you said @Herowannabe, Vin can do ranged attacks. Vivenna would need to be touching Vin’s mistcloak to awaken it.

And also be touching it long enough to speak a Command and form the mental image to attack Vin.

Plus mistcloaks are designed to be easy to come apart at a pull, to avoid entangling the wearer during ordinary close quarters combat, so after a time of shock and confusion, I think Vin could flare pewter and get loose from it fairly quickly. It'd be mostly useful as a distraction ploy for Vivenna to get a window to do something else to Vin, like stab her, but Vin would probably be Pushing away from Vivenna while disentangling herself from her cloak.

If that one stab were with Nightblood, though... Sorry, Vin.

[Herowannabe he/him]

On 6/10/2018 at 4:23 PM, robardin said:

Plus mistcloaks are designed to be easy to come apart at a pull, to avoid entangling the wearer during ordinary close quarters combat

That’s only so useful when the tassels of the mistcloak are actively trying to strangle you. Say you loose the cords that tie the mistcloak around your neck... so what? The tassels aren’t going to just let go. They’re still going to be strangling you. 

Vin would have to actually tear the mistcloak apart / off of her before she would be safe. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by Herowannabe
Typo

[+robardin he/him]

1 hour ago, Herowannabe said:

That’s only so useful when the tassels of the mistcloak are actively trying to strangle you. Say you loose the cords that tie the mistcloak around your neck... so what? The tassels aren’t going to just let go. They’re still going to be strangling you. 

Vin would have to actually tear the mistcloak apart / off of her before she would be safe. 

Yes, but I don't think tearing it apart would be very difficult if it's designed to come apart, especially with a pewter flare

[5ith Ideal he/him]

I really want to say Kaladin, but it would definitely be a close fight.