What was it that Broke Shallan?

[Numb]

Isn't the broken soul a lot like the snapping in Allomancy? If there are parallels between the two then it could mean that you don't just have to have negative experience but can also have positive ones. 

 

I believe the scene where she draws Burth and herself in various situations is important. Shallan and Lightweaving is about changing the lie into the truth. It's about making reality into what you want it to be instead of what it currently is. It's possible that Shallan as a kid displayed this desire strongly enough to attract a spren without any huge emotional trauma. She has always wanted to change her reality but then started to regress by lying to herself.

 

Syl tells Kaladin how the way he fights is about them and it's always been the case. Kal as a person has always wanted to protect people. There's never a stage in his life when he doesn't want to protect them. He gave up everything to try save Tien and has dealt with the "can you kill and protect" since he was a child. Tien's death seems to have merely strengthen the bond enough it to start actively happening. I think it's possible that Kal might have bonded even without Tien's death, his desire to protect was there regardless it just pushed him further along. 

[Argent he/him]

There is a difference though. Maybe you can attract a spren by having a profound positive experience, but the uplifting and inspiring moments both Kaladin and Shallan have are no different from the uplifting and inspiring moments every one of us has. They change them, motivate them, but don't affect their magic directly.

[RShara she/her]

There's a passage where Shallan thinks of her mother and father fighting.  Parental fighting can be pretty traumatic for a child, and would be enough to crack her, I think.

[kari-no-sugata]

Isn't the broken soul a lot like the snapping in Allomancy? If there are parallels between the two then it could mean that you don't just have to have negative experience but can also have positive ones. 

 

I believe the scene where she draws Burth and herself in various situations is important. Shallan and Lightweaving is about changing the lie into the truth. It's about making reality into what you want it to be instead of what it currently is. It's possible that Shallan as a kid displayed this desire strongly enough to attract a spren without any huge emotional trauma. She has always wanted to change her reality but then started to regress by lying to herself.

 

Funny you say this since in my post above (written a few hours ago) I had started writing something along these lines but decided to remove it out since I wasn't sure how well we could apply Snapping to "Breaking", I couldn't find the WoB on "positive" Snapping and felt that some things hinted otherwise after researching a bit.

 

In chapter 13 Pattern says:

"I know... little of humans," Pattern said. "They break. Their minds break. You did not break. Only cracked."

She continued her washing.

"It is the lies that save you", Pattern said. "The lies that drew me."

 

 

And in chapter 60:

 

"Shallan," Pattern said, moving closer to her. "I know that you have forgotten much of what once was. Those lies attracted me. But you cannot continue like this; you must admit the truth about me. About what I can do, and what we have done. Mmm... More, you must know yourself. And remember."

 

However, for all his odd word usage, Pattern seems very literal. With the first quote he's basically saying that Shallen's lies saved her from breaking and that's what attracted him to her in the first place. As best as I can tell, without an Honorblade it's impossible to do any kind of Surgebinding without a spren - you can do very limited Surgebinding without the oaths but nothing without a spren. So, Shallan's playing with light in the gardens etc would had have to have happened after she started bonding with Pattern originally.

 

Well... unless this playing with light is like a child creating a fictional friend (or friends) to play with. Hmm, here's a new theory:

1) Let's assume that Shallan's family was not a "happy family" even before her mother died or Shallan did any Lightweaving. I doubt that her father's change to an angry, obsessive, violent drunk came out of nothing, for example.

2) Shallan avoids confrontation, particularly as a child. This could have started earlier than we thought.

3) Shallan would like to live in a happy family and has a good imagination - consider her "dream family scene" with Hoid in the "Middlefest" flashback (chapter 45).

4) Let's assume that before Shallan ever started Surgebinding her mother and father had heated arguments and that Shallan would go into the garden to escape. For a child, arguing parents can be quite traumatic. though maybe there was something particularly significant on top of that.

5) So, all the above led to Shallen seeking shelter in the gardens and inventing childhood playmates or similar. ie "lies". These lies helped her cope with the stress.

6) This attracted Pattern and then Shallan started Surgebinding.

7) Now, Shallan's imaginations became "real"

8) The bond deepens and Shallan is able to speak the first oath

9) Eventually her mother finds out and unable to get Shallan to stop eventually sends for an "expert"

10) This expert persuades Shallan's mother that her daughter has to die (sounds like one of Nin/Nalan's underlings)

 

I don't know when Pattern first ever formed as a Shardblade but I suspect he was capable of it before that fateful even with Shallan's mother. Shallan's oaths/growth work differently to Kaladin so a crisis situation would not necessarily help her grow. I think it's quite possible that Pattern was capable of manifesting as a Shardblade weeks/months before that event but Shallan wasn't interested in weapons so had no need for it.

[BrindIf]

4) Let's assume that before Shallan ever started Surgebinding her mother and father had heated arguments and that Shallan would go into the garden to escape. For a child, arguing parents can be quite traumatic. though maybe there was something particularly significant on top of that.

They could have argue over her, which would have been even more traumatic.

[Aleksiel]

It all sounds reasonable except that part of not-even-11-years-old Shallan just casually figuring out the first oath. Of course, her father had Nohadon's WoK, yet I'm having hard time believing Shallan said it on her own. She'd likely started manifesting some abilities before the oath like Kaladin did. With all the secret societies and worldhoppers going around it's possible someone pushed her just a little.

[lichie]

Why does everyone assume that someone has to "break" before they can form a bond with a spren? Where did that idea come from????

[Aleksiel]

Why does everyone assume that someone has to "break" before they can form a bond with a spren? Where did that idea come from????

 

Brandon 

[kari-no-sugata]

It all sounds reasonable except that part of not-even-11-years-old Shallan just casually figuring out the first oath. Of course, her father had Nohadon's WoK, yet I'm having hard time believing Shallan said it on her own. She'd likely started manifesting some abilities before the oath like Kaladin did. With all the secret societies and worldhoppers going around it's possible someone pushed her just a little.

 

I seem to remember Dalinar hearing "whispers on the wind" (as it were) that sounded like parts of the first oath. Dont have reference to hand though.

 

Basically: I dont think you need to "work out" or happen to read the Oath, you can "feel" it with a provisional bond... possibly depending on the strength of the provisional bond and how well you are living the oaths.

[Meerletalis]

My theory, which cannot yet be proven, is that her father was already treating her differently than her brothers.  She saw the abuse, leading her to the first ideal.  She wanted to protect her brothers.  Even when studying flora and fauna, she shows great compassion.  There is also the comments about her family being different.  Perhaps there are bloodlines among the Lighteyes.  The Kholin family surely shows signs that such is possible.

[Leuthie]

Seems to me that Cultivation's spren, of which we've seen two: Pattern and Wyndle, are actively seeking bonds and using predictive ability to do so. Since tgey have a living Matron, they may be able to plan and think in the Cognitive realm better than the only real Honor spren weve seen.

Shallan had artistic ability early and a stressful family. Pattern saw both and slipped into the crack in her Cognitive self. He increased her creativity and nudged existing family stress further along to form more cracks for him to fit into, culminating in the death of her mother.

In short, Pattern found an opening in a child and exploited it.

[Moogle]

Why does everyone assume that someone has to "break" before they can form a bond with a spren? Where did that idea come from????

 

From the back cover of WoR;

 

It is the nature of the magic. A broken soul has cracks into which something else can be fit.  Surgebindings, the powers of creation themselves.  They can brace a broken soul; but they can also widen its fissures.

[Chrono she/her]

I always assumed that Shallan's parents were not the best role models of a good marriage even before this whole surgebinding thing popped up. Even something as simple as one of the parents not supporting the child can be enough to cause trauma or emotional hurt. Shallan often talks about her mother in the same manner as her father. She "loved" them. In her dream, she talks about how her mother would teach her how to draw. Her mother, even before she started to hate Shallan, could simply have not been emotionally involved in the relationship. That could easily attract a spren.

 

I think that the bond was rather strong before Shallan killed her mother. She described drawing Pattern in the sand in her gardens, seeing him in the rocks, and playing with a shimmering pattern of light as a child. To a mother who already was emotionally detached from her child, that looks an awful lot like something dangerous and forbidden according to Vorinism (it wasn't especially kind when it came to the Knights Radiant). When Shallan had to face the truth that her mother wanted to kill her, she made Pattern into a Shardblade.

 

I believe we also have Word of Brandon that Shallan is farther along in her Knight Radianthood than Kaladin is.

[kari-no-sugata]

I noticed two interesting passages in chapter 73 (flashback where Shallan kills her father):

This had been coming. She'd known this had been coming. They tried to hide, they tried to flee. Of course that wouldn't work.

It hadn't worked with Mother either.

 

This is presumably her real mother. Gives a strong indication that Shallan had a long sense of impending doom with her mother too - rather than it being very sudden.

 

Shallan forced herself to her feet. Coldness. Yes, she recognized that coldness inside of her now. She'd felt it before, on the day when she'd lost her mother.

 

This "cold mode" of Shallan is rather creepy - reminds me a bit of Taravangian intelligent/compassionate swings and having to live with the guilt logic forced on him. I wonder if she is why she says she "I hate logic, always have" when Kaladin goes to sacrifice himself?

 

In chapter 34 Shallan goes "Can't run, can't run, can't run.... Fight" when Tyn tries to kill her. I'd guess that something similar happened with Shallan and her mother: she was trapped, couldn't run, went into cold mode and found only one possible solution: summon her Shardblade and use it.

[WitSpren he/him]

I noticed two interesting passages in chapter 73 (flashback where Shallan kills her father):

 

This is presumably her real mother. Gives a strong indication that Shallan had a long sense of impending doom with her mother too - rather than it being very sudden.

 

 

This "cold mode" of Shallan is rather creepy - reminds me a bit of Taravangian intelligent/compassionate swings and having to live with the guilt logic forced on him. I wonder if she is why she says she "I hate logic, always have" when Kaladin goes to sacrifice himself?

 

In chapter 34 Shallan goes "Can't run, can't run, can't run.... Fight" when Tyn tries to kill her. I'd guess that something similar happened with Shallan and her mother: she was trapped, couldn't run, went into cold mode and found only one possible solution: summon her Shardblade and use it.

 

 

I can understand how you might take it that way.    I don't, but I can see your point on it.    Myself I see it like her other comment that she made in another POV, where she said "I hate logic"      She had tried everything else.     Really gone way beyond normal in trying to find a different solution to save everyone else from her psycho father, who she did love and wanted to help as well.     But there was no other way at that point, as he was activly killing her step-mother and was beating her brother to death.   She was faced with the only Logical choice.    Her father was going to kill everyone except her.    So she had to do what she did.

 

 

 

I hope that BS gives a couple more "Flashback" POVs  to fill in what broke her to begin with, and her first saying the "Words/Ideals"

 

 

 

Also,   now that she had her last WoR POV, does she get her Shardplate?       Can't wait to see!!!

Edited April 2, 2014 by WitSpren

[RShara she/her]

Lift is 13 and she's been cracked enough to bond, and recover, so it's not too difficult to imagine Shallan doing the same a young age.

[Rose]

(Hi, I'm new here! )

 

I just want to point out that Roshar years are not the same as earth years. A 10-year-old Shallah would actually be 14 by our standards. By the same logic, Lift is 18 and present-day Shallah is 23. Unless Brandon forgot about the difference in years when we was writing, everyone is much older than we think. (or, alternatively, people on Roshar age slower too so it ends up being the same?)

[Aleksiel]

(Hi, I'm new here! )

 

I just want to point out that Roshar years are not the same as earth years. A 10-year-old Shallah would actually be 14 by our standards. By the same logic, Lift is 18 and present-day Shallah is 23. Unless Brandon forgot about the difference in years when we was writing, everyone is much older than we think. (or, alternatively, people on Roshar age slower too so it ends up being the same?)

 

Hi and welcome! A Rosharian year is 1.1 Earth years, making 10 years old Shallan actually 11, and present Shallan is almost 19. If Lift is 13 in-book that makes her a bit over 14 in earth age.

[Yamahako he/him]

I think part of the key is detailed in the Hoid scene.  What a broken person wants is things to be fixed.  In looking at what Shallan really wants (her family all together and happy), I think we can infer that everything wasn't happy with her family even before her mom came after her.

 

Before her mom tried to kill her, did her mom and Dad fight?  I agree with people saying that he must have been a violent man before that event, and that could cause tension.  Was her mom trying to kill her solely based on her being a surgebinder, or what that a justification for other negative feelings she felt toward Shallan.  Shallan blames herself for her family's destruction, though that in its own way is a lie as well.

 

One thing to note:  Hallaran was with some group of people - but he is the oldest and would likely know the most about Shallan's abilities manifesting.  I've read a lot of theories that say that Hallaran and Mrs. Davar were part of the ghostblood group.  However, Hallaran encourages Shallan's drawing ability.  There's something there, I think, about all of this as well.

 

Maybe Mrs. Davar has a little Lady McBeth in her?  

[WitSpren he/him]

Before her mom tried to kill her, did her mom and Dad fight?  I agree with people saying that he must have been a violent man before that event, and that could cause tension.  Was her mom trying to kill her solely based on her being a surgebinder, or what that a justification for other negative feelings she felt toward Shallan.  Shallan blames herself for her family's destruction, though that in its own way is a lie as well.

Maybe Mrs. Davar has a little Lady McBeth in her?  

 

Quote Shallan’s POV    WoR  US  Hardcover  Pg 1059:

 

                “He let everyone believe that he’d killed her,”  Shallan whispered.  “That he’d murdered his wife and her lover in a rage, when I was the one who had actually killed them.    He lied to protect me.”

                “I know.”

                “That secret destroyed him.    It destroyed our entire family.”

 

WoR  (Red Carpet Once White):

 

                “Father gathered her into his arms, and she felt her skin squirming.   No.   No, this affection wasn’t right.     A monster should not be held in love.   A monster who killed, who murdered.   No.”

 

 

From those two POVs there is no indication that her father ever had any problem before the incident.   To the contrary, he appeared to be very caring and loving.    Only after did it “Destroy him”.

 

That said, we have nothing in the text  to gage her mother.      Well nothing other than that her mother and the other man were trying to kill Shallan at that event.

We do not even know what her mother thought that Shallan was.     Voidbringer?    KR?    Surgebinder?

My guess is a KR, but we can’t be sure.

[RShara she/her]

Warmth. That warmth she felt, a deep glow, was like the joy she had known before. Long ago. Before everything had gone wrong. Before Mother.

 

 

She tried to still her heart. Even as a little child, she’d been this way. She could remember her tears at fights between her parents. She was not good with confrontation.

The first quote is from WoR, and could be referring to a happy event that allowed her to Snap, so to speak.

 

Or, the second quote is from WoK, and could also be responsible for breaking her enough to allow the bond to form.

[Aoibheann she/her]

There's also this quote after Shallan's decision to deal with her Father: 

 

This had been coming.  She'd known this had been coming.  They tried to hide, they tried to flee.  Of course that wouldn't work. 

It hadn't worked with Mother either.

 

To me this implies Shallan had tried to hide and/or flee from her Mother.  Maybe this is why Shallan spent so much time in the gardens? Even before her Mother's death? 

[WitSpren he/him]

The first quote is from WoR, and could be referring to a happy event that allowed her to Snap, so to speak.

 

Or, the second quote is from WoK, and could also be responsible for breaking her enough to allow the bond to form.

Do you have pages on those?      just so we can see the context.

 

The first one seems to be after she broke but before her mom tried to kill her.

 

 

 

But the second one seems spot on!      Or at least the first clue with what I think is real potential.          Of course that could just be gullable me!

[RShara she/her]

 

She tried to still her heart. Even as a little child, she’d been this way. She could remember her tears at fights between her parents. She was not good with confrontation.

--Way of Kings, page 521/1036

 

 

Warmth. That warmth she felt, a deep glow, was like the joy she had known before. Long ago. Before everything had gone wrong. Before Mother.

--Words of Radiance, page 543/1111

 

These are the ebook versions (don't have the hardback with me at the moment), so the pages might be a bit off.

[Aleksiel]

I was under the impression her parents had fights because of what Shallan could do. Her mother saw lightweaving as an abomination and met the whatever-was-the-name people until finally she tried to murder her own child.