Odium on Sel

[KChan]

Well, if you look at the Reod as a consequence of Aona's death - which I consider entirely possible - then it could, perhaps, still be considered as "naturally occurring." Rayse killed Aona and Skai, and in the aftermath of that incident - perhaps as a direct result of Aona's death, or perhaps as part of some chain reaction of aftereffects, or just as part of the general chaos that would ensue upon the death of two Shardholders and the splintering of their Shards - the Reod occurred, shattering the land and disrupting Aon Dor.

It's a thought, anyways.

[Deano Stormblessed]

Just reading Elantris and came across this quote concering the Roed:

It had come with a tempest- that much even Roaden remembered. The earth itself had shattered, an enormous chasm appearing in the south, all of Arelon quaking.

This quote seems to fit quite nicely with Hoid's letter:

One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say.

This is good evidence to support that Rayse/Odium caused the Roed.

[KChan]

Good evidence indeed. It's pretty heavily implied that Rayse/Odium either caused the Reod, or that it was a side effect of his killing Aona and Skai.

[Andrew the Great]

Personally, I think him splintering the shard would be more likely to cause the actual damage. Especially given what we've seen with how Arelon seems to be linked quite directly with Aona's power. Splinter the Shard = splinter the land.

[Deano Stormblessed]

I like it better the other way. Splinter the land => splinter the shard

[Zas678]

You guys remember has Ruin was weakened because of the atium that was taken away? I wonder what would've happened if all of his power was put into atium and then was destroyed.

Maybe that's what happened to Aona.

Speaking of her (i'd like to think one of them is a girl, plus the name seems feminineish), what is her shard's name? I assume that her shadow is what's at the Pool, but what does that represent?

Relief? Surrender? Serenity? Caring? 

[Chaos]

Maybe that's what happened to Aona.

Speaking of her (i'd like to think one of them is a girl, plus the name seems feminineish), what is her shard's name? I assume that her shadow is what's at the Pool, but what does that represent?

Relief? Surrender? Serenity? Caring? 

That's an open question, which should definitely be debated. If you'd like, create a new topic.

[Andrew the Great]

Well if I recall correctly, Ruin was weakened because he didn't have access to his full power right then. Once the Atium was burned, it would eventually reform, and Ruin could find it and reincorporate it into his body or something like that. My memory of the whole Mistborn Trilogy is a little hazy at the moment. Time for some re-reading.

Following this logic, if you destroyed the Atium (which I'm not even sure is possible....the matter that made up Ruin's body would still exist in some form or another, so it'd just be extremely small amounts of atium, or atium alloys), it would eventually just reform. Unless you completely destroyed the matter somehow.

And I don't know about you, but in my opinion the term "Splinter" doesn't particularly go with the process you describe.

Her shadow being at the pool makes a lot of sense. Time for an Elantris re-read as well...

Sigh. So much to do.....

As for what her Shard is, I'd say relief would be a good guess. Or something similar.

Her being the pool also makes a lot of sense in explaining why the Elantrians can get relief there. When they enter the pool, the portion of Aona's power that they hold can be assimilated back into the whole. In fact, I have to wonder if the theory that's going around that the Elantrians hold splinters isn't correct, and if all of the Elantrians were to enter the pool, the Shard would be whole again.

[Chaos]

Well if I recall correctly, Ruin was weakened because he didn't have access to his full power right then. Once the Atium was burned, it would eventually reform, and Ruin could find it and reincorporate it into his body or something like that. My memory of the whole Mistborn Trilogy is a little hazy at the moment. Time for some re-reading.

Following this logic, if you destroyed the Atium (which I'm not even sure is possible....the matter that made up Ruin's body would still exist in some form or another, so it'd just be extremely small amounts of atium, or atium alloys), it would eventually just reform. Unless you completely destroyed the matter somehow.

You conception about Ruin and the atium is correct. If Ruin found it, he would just immediately metabolize it, and the world would fairly instantly be destroyed. When atium has been burned, he can't go access it there.

The fact that Odium can't destroy Aona and Skai's power seems to suggest that the Law of Conservation of Energy always, always applies. It just changes form.

I'm gonna create a separate topic about Aona's Shard name. That definitely deserves its own discussion.

[Deano Stormblessed]

If we associate Aona's splintering with Rayse's visit (from the reading of Hoid's letter) and we associate Rayse's visit with the Roed, then I don't know if the lake is a shadow of Aona, as it existed before her death. I just don't know that much about the splintering process of a shard. Can they do it while still alive? Do they have to be dead? Can they reclaim the splinter at a later date and make themselves whole?

[Andrew the Great]

Well, as I was recently informed (ie about 15 minutes ago), Brandon has confirmed that Lightsong has a splinter of the Divine nature in him that allows him to see the future (and I did find the q&a. I can get a link if you want). The Returned holding Splinters of Endowment would be a big deal indeed, as it means that it's possible for a Shard to be Splintered and still very much alive. It would also make sense for the Shard to be able to reclaim the splinter, or else the Returned hold incredibly small Splinters, and Endowment is getting weaker all the time.

Now whether a splinter = a Splinter is another debate, but just the wording makes it seem as though it's the same thing.

I see the lake in Elantris as being akin to liquid Ruin and liquid Preservation. It's the place that their power gathers, and being there allows you to hear the voice of the Shardholder, or what's left of it.

[Zas678]

Maybe the Splinter is what allows them to be alive.

EDIT- And I think what Endowment does is sort of like what Vin did with Elend. Endowment speaks to the recently deceased (as the Voice) and asks if they want to Return. If they accept, then Endowment gives them some of his power to give them an uber-breath that makes them Returned. This is a Splinter. Or quite possibly a splinter.

Wait- I'm wrong.

Brandon says in that same Q&A that a Splinter is someone that once held the power of a Shard. No-wait-that was a sliver.

Sigh. I need review my terminology.

[Andrew the Great]

It would probably help if they weren't all so similar.

Wait... a sliver? How does one meet those conditions without being dead? Is it possible to relinquish a Shard?

And actually, the Returned holding Splinters is strong support for Elantrians also holding Splinters. Brandon even compares the two directly several times in the Warbreaker annotations. And I'm still really liking the comment I made earlier about the Splinters they hold being absorbed into the whole when they go into the pool.

Also, in that same q&a, someone mentioned that they believed that the Pool for Endowment is located where the Tears of Edgli (spelling?) grow. Brandon wouldn't confirm or deny it, but this is the only location on Nalthis that we've seen so far that makes a lot of sense. It would make sense that plants with a lot of color would grow near the pool of a Shard on a world where color is used to fuel magic. Kind of like, say, Atium forming in the Pits of Hathsin.

[ROSHtafARian]

Anyone think that Edgli could be Endowment's name?  If atium was named for Ati and Lerasium for Leras, and we think the Tears of Edgli are the physical embodiment of Endowment's power then well...could Endowment be Edgli?

[Andrew the Great]

IF the Tears of Edgli are indeed the embodiment of Endowment. That's completely speculation, though, with no real foundation in fact.

[Chaos]

Well, as I was recently informed (ie about 15 minutes ago), Brandon has confirmed that Lightsong has a splinter of the Divine nature in him that allows him to see the future (and I did find the q&a. I can get a link if you want). The Returned holding Splinters of Endowment would be a big deal indeed, as it means that it's possible for a Shard to be Splintered and still very much alive. It would also make sense for the Shard to be able to reclaim the splinter, or else the Returned hold incredibly small Splinters, and Endowment is getting weaker all the time.

Now whether a splinter = a Splinter is another debate, but just the wording makes it seem as though it's the same thing.

Heck, dude, that Barnes and Noble Q&A was where we discovered the word Splinter to begin with. The fact that Brandon used the word Splinter suggests to me that it is a very precise term in cosmere metaphysics, like Shard (of course, Shardblades certainly confuse that matter. But I stick with my logic!)

I see the lake in Elantris as being akin to liquid Ruin and liquid Preservation. It's the place that their power gathers, and being there allows you to hear the voice of the Shardholder, or what's left of it.

I'm absolutely certain that the pools are directly related to the Cognitive Realm. (lerasium beads are related to the Physical Realm, mists to the Spiritual Realm)

Maybe the Splinter is what allows them to be alive.

EDIT- And I think what Endowment does is sort of like what Vin did with Elend. Endowment speaks to the recently deceased (as the Voice) and asks if they want to Return. If they accept, then Endowment gives them some of his power to give them an uber-breath that makes them Returned. This is a Splinter. Or quite possibly a splinter.

Wait- I'm wrong.

Brandon says in that same Q&A that a Splinter is someone that once held the power of a Shard. No-wait-that was a sliver.

Sigh. I need review my terminology.

I don't think the terms like Sliver are well defined.

Anyone think that Edgli could be Endowment's name?  If atium was named for Ati and Lerasium for Leras, and we think the Tears of Edgli are the physical embodiment of Endowment's power then well...could Endowment be Edgli?

That is certainly the best candidate for Endowment's name.

IF the Tears of Edgli are indeed the embodiment of Endowment. That's completely speculation, though, with no real foundation in fact.

I do believe Brandon said that the Tears are related to Endowment.

[Andrew the Great]

All I saw was him saying that he had perceptive fans, then refusing to either confirm or deny that the Tears of Edgli were in any way related to Endowment. I'd appreciate a link if you have it.....

And recall, Chaos, that I was gone for an extensive period of time from various forums and didn't actually see every Q&A in existence. I just started using the term Splintered cuz everyone else was and it sounded cool.

I feel so behind the times.....

[Chaos]

A lot of the things that I say I "hear" are "things Mi'chelle told me". There's a reason she's an admin besides being a founder: they are freakishly good at stalking. So, I don't have a citation for you. But it's one of those factoids where I can be reasonably certain it's been said.

And, you should all fall for the logical fallacy on Argument from Authority and believe my authority, right?

[Andrew the Great]

Well, believe your argument. Not necessarily your authority.....

[Earendil]

After thinking about this a little more, I can't help but think that the Reod wasn't the consequence of Odium's visit (at least not the consequence mentioned in the letter).  Without getting into what shattering means, the Reod just wasn't important enough to be worth mentioning.

Here's my reasoning:  the Reod lasted 10 years.  Assuming that Shards have a life expectancy of no less than 10,000 years (This number seems reasonable to me, although the Almighty might have had his life cut short), 10 years is the rough equivalent of 1 month of our lifetime.  Compared with the two events mentioned explicitly (the death of Aona and Skai, and the shattering of their shards), 10 years of limited power for one of the factions on Sel just doesn't even seem worth thinking about.  It's also pretty weak if we try to ascribe it to deliberate malice--the best the god of hatred can do is mess things up for 10 years?  I could nearly cause that amount of chaos.

[trendkill]

Let me first start out that I am fairly new to the concept of the cosmere and the Shards and whatnot (only first found out that the worlds were all "connected" yesterday  :-[ ), so I might be a little (read: lot) behind on some of the theories.

My main thought, related to Odium being on Sel, is this: Does anyone else see some resemblance between the Shattered Plains and the Chasm?? Might they have both been caused, directly or otherwise, by Odium??

[Ryan]

I seem to recall that Brandon has said that the chasm was not caused by Odium. Does anyone else remember that, and if so, do you know where it came from? It's completely slipped my mind.

[trendkill]

I seem to recall that Brandon has said that the chasm was not caused by Odium. Does anyone else remember that, and if so, do you know where it came from? It's completely slipped my mind.

I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't, I just thought of it and didn't see anything about it anywhere, so I thought I would pose the question.

Another thing that made me think of it was the Honor Chasm, but chasm is a generic enough word that it is probably just a coincidence.

[Andrew the Great]

It's news to me if he's said anything about it. Brandon's been pretty tight-lipped about anything about how Stormlight Archive and Sel connect.