[OB] Parentage of SPOILER

[Solitary Recluse he/him]

We've had confirmation for a few months now that Kaladin's mother Hesina had a Lighteyed parent.

Seems simple enough. There was some speculation early on about who she, and by connection Kaladin, was related to, but no one had evidence to supply so it was all being discussed frivolously.

I may have just discovered Hesina's relative though through a single line in Oathbringer.

Setting: the castle rescue attempt in Part Three with Kaladin and Elhokar moving down the final hallway leading to the Queen. (Page 811 in the Hardcover)

Quote

"There are soldiers down that smaller hallway to the left," Syl said, zipping back to him. "There isn't a single one in the room ahead, but . . . Kaladin, she's in there. The queen."

"I can hear her," Elhokar said. "That's her voice, singing."

I know that tune, Kaladin thought. Something about her soft song was familiar.

This is the clue. Hesina and Aesudan, the queen of Alethkar were related. (Personal guess: Hesina is Aesudan's Aunt) Kaladin is a relative to the Crown.

I also think this leads into why Aesudan was worried that the Almighty was displeased with her. She was hiding the fact that she had darkeyed parentage. According to the Vorin religion, all lighteyes are born to rule and are superior to the darkeyes. If it became known that one of her Grand?parents was darkeyed, she could lose standing among the nobility. It's easy to see how an Ardent could have found out and used the information to influence her behavior.

[mosaab]

That can make kaladin into a near uncle for Gavinor.

[Song she/her]

I love this theory!!!!!

[Gray to he/him]

This theory intrigues me and I want to believe it but I need more evidence

Edit: I wonder if the reason she kept treating her ardent so well was not only she was worried that the Almighty was displeased with her for being related to darkeyes, but also to keep the ardent so comfortable that they don't investigate into her family history.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Gray to

[Angsos]

It seems plausible as Hessina always seemed different but couldn't Aesudan and Hessina know the same tune. Also that would kind of nix the Jasnah/Kaladin thing some people want but then again I don't if first cousins would be sanctioned or not.

[Zelly]

Oooh I like this.   Also, Sanderson has used the "hey this is strangely familiar" stuff in several places across the cosmere to poke at connections and foreshadowing.  

[Leyrann]

17 hours ago, Angsos said:

It seems plausible as Hessina always seemed different but couldn't Aesudan and Hessina know the same tune. Also that would kind of nix the Jasnah/Kaladin thing some people want but then again I don't if first cousins would be sanctioned or not.

Aesudan and Jasnah aren't even related except being sisters-in-law.

[Leyrann]

It is the kind of foreshadowing Brandon could do...

As mentioned earlier though, we need more evidence.

[Solant he/him]

This is a cool theory, if only just speculation. I like it. 

The real question is how does Jon Snow fit into it?

[Stark he/him]

2 hours ago, Solant said:

Jon Snow

Jon Snow?  I figured we'd be talking about Kvothe's mom at this point.

[Subvisual Haze]

I like this theory

 

There may be other explanations though.  Kaladin recognizes the tune of the song.  That tune could be one of the Rhythms that normally humans can't hear, but Kaladin may have heard it hummed secondhand by a Listener, or Shen, or one of the Singers he traveled with earlier in the novel.

[Naurock]

4 hours ago, Stark said:

Jon Snow?  I figured we'd be talking about Kvothe's mom at this point.

But Kaladin's mom is alive and well, she hasn't been

Spoiler

murdered by Demons.

 

[RShara she/her]

Point. The phrasing was that that they were not both darkeyed. And that it might not mean what we think.

 

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Are both of Kaladin's maternal grandparents darkeyes?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

No. Good question. I think you're the first one to pull that out of me.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

There's one question, or two questions in [the signing line], that I know are driving your brains crazy, that are not as clear-cut in my answers as you might assume they are. One is about Kaladin's mother.

source

 

[Barbarian AL he/him]

This is pretty cool actually, if not yet completely plausible. 

[+robardin he/him]

Hmm, I like it, but on Roshar aren't lighteyes/darkeyes unions typically limited to first nahn DEs and low-dahn LEs? I can't see the King (first dahn) marrying a woman from a family of low enough dahn to have had a near relative one generation removed marry a darkeyes.

Of course, Graves was a lighteyes of the fourth dahn (being a Shardbearer) who had married a darkeyes, so it's not like it was illegal, just rare. But seeing how Elhokar treated Kaladin after he saved Adolin in the dueling arena for being a darkeyes who dared to challenge Amaram (not to mention how he handled the Roshone Affair), I don't see him being particularly progressive on that front.

 

[Timothy]

Plot twist: She's a Herald.

[Angsos]

She's really Jon Snow's mother. Incidentally you do realize George is never going to finish.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Angsos

[IllNsickly he/him]

1 hour ago, Angsos said:

Incidentally you do realize George is never going to finish.

I’ve got a shiny that I’ll bet says he finishes before Rothfuss.

[hypatia she/her]

With the original text of this WoB I don't think one of Hesina's parent was/is lighteyed - what else is possible?

Both -as in heterochromatic - or nothing.

These terms IIRC are used in countries with Vorintradition, in other countries like Iri, Rira, Shinovar this system isn't a thing.

Now there is another indicator for mixed forbearers - the haircolor.

Adolin p.e. with his black/yellow hair or Shallan with red hair from a Horneater forbearer.

I remember Tien with his mixed black/brown hair, his small stature and his affinity for stones - perhaps one of Hesina's parents was from Shinovar?

[Llarimar he/him]

This is a really interesting idea.  I like that it delves deeper into the character of Aesudan, because I feel like she hasn't been fully explored in the books and I have wondered why Brandon kept her offscreen so much and underutilized her before killing her off.  It would makes sense if he were trying to shroud her in mystery.

Several people have noted the implications for Aesudan if she has darkeyed parentage.

On 5/12/2018 at 9:09 PM, Solitary Recluse said:

I also think this leads into why Aesudan was worried that the Almighty was displeased with her. She was hiding the fact that she had darkeyed parentage. According to the Vorin religion, all lighteyes are born to rule and are superior to the darkeyes. If it became known that one of her Grand?parents was darkeyed, she could lose standing among the nobility. It's easy to see how an Ardent could have found out and used the information to influence her behavior.

On 5/12/2018 at 11:43 PM, Gray to said:

Edit: I wonder if the reason she kept treating her ardent so well was not only she was worried that the Almighty was displeased with her for being related to darkeyes, but also to keep the ardent so comfortable that they don't investigate into her family history.

But... what would it mean for Kaladin if he were to learn that he is related to the Alethi royalty?  He is becoming more open-minded about lighteyes, but his disdain for them in general is one of his most distinctive personality traits, and he especially hates the supremacy of lighteyes.  It may be difficult for him psychologically to realize that he is related to Aesudan and Gavinor.  Or it could alternatively help to further heal his distrust of lighteyes, and bring him closer to the ruling Kholin family - which would bring him closer to Adolin, and possibly... Shallan, on a side note?  Not that I want them to end up together necessarily, but that's one of the first things I thought of when I read this thread.  If Kaladin were considered "part of the family," it might mean that he would become closer to Shallan, as her marriage with Adolin (inevitably) struggles.  

[Barbarian AL he/him]

On 5/15/2018 at 2:26 AM, IllNsickly said:

I’ve got a shiny that I’ll bet says he finishes before Rothfuss.

The problem is, I picked up Name of the wind and read it because I read somewhere that he has written the whole thing already and the 3rd one will soon be out. Fool that I was :'(

[Llarimar he/him]

On 5/14/2018 at 4:26 PM, IllNsickly said:

I’ve got a shiny that I’ll bet says he finishes before Rothfuss.

8 minutes ago, Barbarian AL said:

The problem is, I picked up Name of the wind and read it because I read somewhere that he has written the whole thing already and the 3rd one will soon be out. Fool that I was :'(

If I ever write a fantasy series (which is a goal of mine), I will finish writing and editing the entire thing before I begin sending it to publishers.  Not only will it give the publisher confidence that the author knows what direction he's going in, but it's good for the fans because they know that every 12 months or so another installment will be regularly released.  Wasn't The Doors of Stone supposed to be released this year?  Sigh... I don't like Rothfuss as much as I like Sanderson, but I do plan to read Book 3 of Kingkiller - the longer he takes to finish it though, the more my patience will wane.

[IllNsickly he/him]

Back on topic, though.

I like this theory. Something about it feels right. 

Kowing that Hessina’s parentage has been RAFO’d, that she had one Lighteyed parent and  is more educated than you would expect from a Darkeyes. 

Also, the sort of phonetic similarity of Aesudan and Hessina is very suggestive.

[Rainier]

On 5/15/2018 at 3:49 AM, hypatia said:

heterochromatic

I think this is the likeliest possibility, and that this heterochromatic relative of Kaladin's was a nurse of staff in the household, which is why the song is recognizable. It's just the sort of Aes Sedai answer Brandon would give.

[hypatia she/her]

The problem is that he was asked wether Hesina's parents were Darkeyes, not darkeyed.

This is a term for the social status in Vorincountries and I don't think it possible for foreigners to automatically fit in this system.

I can't believe that a beggar from Iri would become a Lighteye or a vezier from Azir a Darkeye. Other counties don't fit in this system and perhaps won't be really integrated in the caste - system in Alethkar.

Is there something known about Aesudan?

Prhaps she also had partly brown hair?