Is Waxillium Ladrian a returned?

[MistGyorn]

I have looked around and I haven't seen this question asked yet so I thought I would throw it out there. What are the chances that Waxillium Ladrian is a Returned. During Lightsong's vision whilst imprisoned he remembers dieing and being sent back as a returned. I don't know of any inclination of Wax being Returned after choosing to come back, nor do I know any specific connection between Harmony and Endowment. So I am wondering if any of you have any information that could confirm or deny this possibility would be cool. Obviously Scadrial Returned would be different than Nalthis Returned as they have different investiture. What do you guys think?

[Fatikis he/him]

5 minutes ago, Shardling89 said:

I have looked around and I haven't seen this question asked yet so I thought I would throw it out there. What are the chances that Waxillium Ladrian is a Returned. During Lightsong's vision whilst imprisoned he remembers dieing and being sent back as a returned. I don't know of any inclination of Wax being Returned after choosing to come back, nor do I know any specific connection between Harmony and Endowment. So I am wondering if any of you have any information that could confirm or deny this possibility would be cool. Obviously Scadrial Returned would be different than Nalthis Returned as they have different investiture. What do you guys think?

Only those with a breath can return. Wax does not have a breath. Returned is a very specific thing that only exists on Nalthis. Harmony/Scadrial would not have returned. Harmony seems to have prevented his immediate death and given him a choice. Returned actually die.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Fatikis

[Weltall]

Specifically, a Returned is a particular type of Cognitive Shadow whose soul has been stapled back into their original body via a Splinter of Endowment (the Divine Breath) and Brandon has said that for most intents and purposes only a Nalthian can become one. This probably has to do with Connection to Endowment, which a non-native won't normally have.

What happened to Wax is that he spoke to Harmony before his soul passed Beyond and while it was still possible to restore the connection between his Physical body and his Cognitive/Spiritual 'self'. Notice that Harmony doesn't do anything to heal Wax, he just talks with him until Marasi arrives with the Bands which give Wax the means to tap F-Gold and heal himself. And Wax probably doesn't count as a Cognitive Shadow himself since we've seen exactly this sort of thing with Szeth, who Brandon has described as not being a Cognitive Shadow.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Weltall

[King Cole he/him]

No, just no

[RShara she/her]

8 hours ago, Shardling89 said:

I have looked around and I haven't seen this question asked yet so I thought I would throw it out there. What are the chances that Waxillium Ladrian is a Returned. During Lightsong's vision whilst imprisoned he remembers dieing and being sent back as a returned. I don't know of any inclination of Wax being Returned after choosing to come back, nor do I know any specific connection between Harmony and Endowment. So I am wondering if any of you have any information that could confirm or deny this possibility would be cool. Obviously Scadrial Returned would be different than Nalthis Returned as they have different investiture. What do you guys think?

Nope, Wax is not a Returned. His body doesn't change, and he still has all of his memories, and he doesn't have any of the Heightenings. Harmony kept his soul from going Beyond until his body could be healed.

The Returned are a unique effect of Endowment's investiture on Nalthis. Harmony could possibly replicated it if he wanted to, but Wax doesn't have any of the signs of being a Cognitive Shadow in a body.

[Isilel]

6 hours ago, RShara said:

Nope, Wax is not a Returned. His body doesn't change, and he still has all of his memories, and he doesn't have any of the Heightenings. Harmony kept his soul from going Beyond until his body could be healed.

It seems that Wax's body wasn't even properly dead, because it was still able to tap F-Gold. There also wasn't the terrible tearing sensation that Kelsier experienced upon dying in The Secret History, so Wax must have been clinically dead at most. In fact, his "last walk" must have been kind of a cheat in that sense.

P.S. I really wonder why Szeth doesn't remember his death experience - we know that he was properly dead, and this recent WoB:

suggests to me that Cultivation is also doing some variation of "last walk" for Rosharans. Even if that's not the case, Szeth should still remember his short stint in the Cognitive Realm, shouldn't he? Unless somebody erased his memory on purpose. Hm... is that yet another piece of her master plan?

Edited April 27, 2018 by Isilel

[JoelyWoely he/him]

I think it's a good idea that he might be a different type of Scadrian pseudo-returned but a lot of people don't understand what happened between him and Harmony in BoM. Harmony didn't do anything to heal/repair Wax, zero, zilch, nil. Marasai was the one who revived Wax, not Harmony, he must've been like extremely near death, maybe just before brain death. Wax says it himself, there's a rumour you come to all those who die (very paraphrased). How could those rumours come to fruition unless there had been other really near death circumstances? Harmony might've put that into the words of founding as well though so who knows.

Edited April 27, 2018 by JoelyWoely
yeet

[MistGyorn]

Thanks to all. I suppose the disconnect for me was the direct connection between Endowment/being a native Nalthisian as a requirement for a Returned. After all, I am beginning to feel that ANYTHING is possible in this cosmere. Obviously Wax does not show any of the signs of a Nalthis Returned but I was thinking maybe since Harmony is a different shard entirely that perhaps his Returned would be somewhat different/express different traits. Especially since we see that Nalthis returned can feed off of the investiture of other planets I thought perhaps they could all have their own returned as well.

However, I see that Wax probably never truly died. And since Harmony is a fully non splintered shard who doesn't seem to have much information regarding the other shards I doubt that he would be mimicking Endowment. Thank you all for your information.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Shardling89

[Fatikis he/him]

23 minutes ago, Shardling89 said:

Thanks to all. I suppose the disconnect for me was the direct connection between Endowment/being a native Nalthisian as a requirement for a Returned. After all, I am beginning to feel that ANYTHING is possible in this cosmere.

It would be for sure possible for Harmony to do if he decided. He could make Wax a splinter which is basically what Returned are.

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Obviously Wax does not show any of the signs of a Nalthis Returned but I was thinking maybe since Harmony is a different shard entirely that perhaps his Returned would be somewhat different/express different traits. Especially since we see that Nalthis returned can feed off of the investiture of other planets I thought perhaps they could all have their own returned as well.

You are probably right there. If Harmony did this it would be different. You probably wouldn't be working with Divine Breath or Heightenings.

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However, I see that Wax probably never truly died. And since Harmony is a fully non splintered shard who doesn't seem to have much information regarding the other shards I doubt that he would be mimicking Endowment. Thank you all for your information.

This is the main thing here. Wax seems to have not died. Harmony may have preserved him for a bit, but he ultimately did not bring Wax back. It was an interesting thought though. It seems close to what happened to Szeths.