[OB] What Binds Odium to Roshar?

[Confused]

I interpret OB’s text and the SLA plot to mean Odium intends human genocide. Maybe human death is a necessary part of Honor and Cultivation’s destruction, but that doesn’t explain what binds Odium to Roshar. Other explanations for human genocide, like Rayse hates humans or Divine Hatred must destroy, don’t work for me narratively.

Instead, I theorize humans carry Odium Investiture they brought with them from Ashyn. I speculate Honor bound that Investiture to them. I think human genocide returns Odium’s Investiture to its source.

Does Odium Want Rosharan Humans Dead?

Desolations alone show Odium wants to eradicate humans. IMO, his negotiation with Taravangian at the end of OB confirms his goal (Chapter 122, Kindle pp. 1216-1217, emphasis added):

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What is it you ask in barter?”

“Protect the people I rule.”

“Dear Taravangian, do you not think I can see what you are planning?” Odium gestured toward writing where the ceiling had once stood. “You would seek to become king of all humans—and then I would need to preserve them all. No. If you help me, I will save your family. Anyone within two generations of you.”

“Not enough.”

“Then we have no deal.” The words started to fade all around them. Leaving him alone. Alone and stupid. He blinked tears from the corners of his eyes. “Kharbranth,” he said. “Preserve only Kharbranth. You may destroy all other nations. Just leave my city. It is what I beg of you.”

The world was lost, humankind doomed. They had planned to protect so much more. But … he saw now how little they knew. One city before the storms. One land protected, even if the rest had to be sacrificed.

“Kharbranth,” Odium said. “The city itself, and any humans who have been born into it, along with their spouses. This is whom I will spare. Do you agree to this?”

“Should we write … a contract?”

“Our word is the contract. I am not some spren of Honor, who seeks to obey only the strictest letter of a promise. If you have an agreement from me, I will keep it in spirit, not merely in word.”

What else could he do? “I will take this deal,” Taravangian whispered. “The Diagram will serve you, in exchange for the preservation of my people….”

Odium insists on few human survivors. He threatens to walk when Taravangian rejects Odium’s counter-offer. He coerces Taravangian’s acceptance. I trust Taravangian’s compassion: If he feels humankind is doomed, he believes it.

I think Odium’s deal may save only now-living Kharbranth humans: “any humans who have been born into it, along with their spouses.” Odium omits children. He might have added, “or those who will be born…” If that’s the “spirit” of Odium’s deal, Rosharan humanity may end in a generation.

Those are my reasons to think Odium wants to eradicate Roshar’s humans. Why would he make that his goal?

What Does Human Genocide Gain Odium?

Rosharan humans come from Ashyn (mostly). That planet’s magic derives from magical microbes: “Viruses and bacteria, various strains of them, have evolved in-line with the investiture on the planet to grant you a magical ability when you catch the disease…” Ashyn’s Investiture is presumably Odium’s.

@Vortaan theorizes Stormlight makes humans disease-resistant and deprives them of their Ashyn magic. Brandon says Ashyn magical abilities end when the human host is healthy again: "You can fly as long as you have the common cold, but when you get over it, you can't anymore.”

But does Odium’s Investiture disappear when the host is healthy and the microbe dies? The microbe’s death may end the magical ability, but the Investiture may remain inside the human host. That would leave every Ashyn human who ever got sick holding Odium’s Investiture. If they can pass that Investiture to their progeny, every living Roshar human probably holds Odium inside them.

I theorize Honor traps Odium by binding that Investiture to humans. Maybe Honor first restricts humans to Shinovar to ban them from Stormlight. All is well until humans proliferate Roshar. Now Odium the Broken One wants his Investiture back.

That’s my explanation (for now). I welcome yours.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Confused

[Zelly]

It's an interesting theory. I too am suspicious about Odium's bargain with King T and I agree that there has to be some reason Odium is choosing to make war, though I think that human eradication is not his goal.  He's making war, but he's not whole slaughtering civilians right and left after cities have fallen (not yet?).

Something about Odium's prison that I always thought was odd was Dalinar's potential role as the "releaser" due to his holding a large remnant of Honor's power.

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"So do it. Leave us alone. Go away."

Odium turned to him so sharply that Dalinar jumped. "Is that," Odium said quietly, "an offer to release me from my bonds, coming from the man holding the remnants of Honor's name and power?"

..... "These things must be done properly. I will go if you release me, but only if you do it by Intent."

We know Odium goes to the trouble of trying to break Dalinar through painful memories and then set him up as the warlord of the Fused.  If Dalinar had become his champion as planned, why not have Dalinar release him after?  Why bother setting him up as the warlord and scourge Roshar?

[Spoolofwhool]

35 minutes ago, Zellyia said:

If Dalinar had become his champion as planned, why not have Dalinar release him after?  Why bother setting him up as the warlord and scourge Roshar?

Making Dalinar into Odium's champion probably would've sundered Dalinar's connection to the Stormfather, therefore no longer giving him the power to release Odium.

[galendo]

Since Odium says he will spare "[t]he city itself, and any humans who have been born into it, along with their spouses," I imagine this would include the following groups:

1) Anyone living in the city, regardless of where they were born.

2) Anyone born in the city, regardless of where they now live.

3) The spouses of the groups above.

So I doubt that complete extermination is possible, within the bounds of this oath.  Not that this makes your theory wrong, necessarily.  It just means that Odium would have to abandon or otherwise reclaim whatever Investiture remains in the few people who are left.

If you want to know the narrative reason that Odium excludes children in his oath, I suspect it's because there's truth to the speculation that Kaladin's mother was born in Kharbranth.  The oath as given would exempt her and Lirin from Odium's devastation, but importantly would not include Kaladin or his new baby brother.

[Oversleep]

I disagree.

First of all, humans did not necessarily brought Odium with them:

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Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

What was the order of the Shards coming to Roshar and changing allegiences? Did Humans come with Odium?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

So... you're talking about on Roshar specifically? So, Odium had visited Roshar. The humans gave him more of an ear... The Dawnsingers would have considered him the god of the people who had come, but-- I mean, it wasn't like they necessarily brought him. He was capable of getting around before that. I mean, he did kinda come along with them, he was instrumental in what happened there.

Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

Okay, but he was separate, and after Honor and Cultivation had really settled there?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, he was after Honor and Cultivation had settled.

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I believe that bacteria symbiosis magic is only now, and have not been there before the cataclysm. I think Cultivation fueled the Ashyn Surgebinders, and without Honor and his restrictions... we know how it ended. Now Cultivation mostly pulled out of Ashyn, and the remnants of her are causing the bacteria symbiosis magic.

I think that why Odium wants to kill humans is because of the deal the Shards have made. There is a win condition for Desolations, when H&C wins and Fused (and Heralds) go back to Braize. Then what is the win condition for Odium?

Perhaps killing all that are not sided with him. Perhaps all humans. Perhaps everyone. Who knows.

I think that Odium got trapped by a deal he made with H&C (the Oathpact is a separate thing concerning Fused and Heralds). And if there is a deal, then that explains why Dalinar could have freed him from it.

[Jace21]

Gramatically speaking, Odium didn't neessarily exclude children in his deal.

It certainly could be interpreted that way but an equally valid meaning would be to include new children. After all, as soon as they are born they could be considered to "have been born into it".

[ZenBossanova]

First, I think Odium should be a LOT more suspicious of Taravangian. 

Second, I think the real question is, why does Odium care so much about destroying the other shards? I don't buy the idea that he merely wants to be the only one. I suspect it goes back to what impelled him shatter Adonalsium in the first place. I think he had what he felt was a good reason, and that same reason makes him want to continue what he was doing. I think it is shards mingling powers that really worry him. If he gets out of the Roshar system, Harmony will be first on his list. 

[Zelly]

1 hour ago, Oversleep said:

Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

What was the order of the Shards coming to Roshar and changing allegiences? Did Humans come with Odium?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

So... you're talking about on Roshar specifically? So, Odium had visited Roshar. The humans gave him more of an ear... The Dawnsingers would have considered him the god of the people who had come, but-- I mean, it wasn't like they necessarily brought him. He was capable of getting around before that. I mean, he did kinda come along with them, he was instrumental in what happened there.

Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

Okay, but he was separate, and after Honor and Cultivation had really settled there?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, he was after Honor and Cultivation had settled.

So this is an interesting WoB.   I wonder if Odium was trapped on Braize before or after the fall of Ashyn.   Did he affect the downfall from Braize, as he is currently doing to Roshar, or maybe in the process of fleeing to Roshar he was diverted to Braize against his will.

[Spoolofwhool]

3 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

Second, I think the real question is, why does Odium care so much about destroying the other shards? I don't buy the idea that he merely wants to be the only one. I suspect it goes back to what impelled him shatter Adonalsium in the first place. I think he had what he felt was a good reason, and that same reason makes him want to continue what he was doing. I think it is shards mingling powers that really worry him. If he gets out of the Roshar system, Harmony will be first on his list. 

Relevant

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Paladin Brewer [PENDING REVIEW]

Out of all the Shards, why does Odium go for Devotion and Dominion?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

He targets people with two kinds of ideas. Number one, he can argue they're breaking the rules they set out. And two, people he thinks are a good match for him, or a challenge, or a danger.

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