The Case of the Obsolete Gemheart

[Argent he/him]

Very well then, I'll leave you to your quest for answers. 

[Sasake]

Yes. I don't know if you missed a couple of the posts I wrote, but I was saying that the cover was another addition to the question. 

I'll state it one last time and then I don't plan on explaining it again: Kaladin learns a power: the ability to stick people to things. He practices in the chasms and finds it is incredibly useful and amplifies his fighting ability. Then he never uses it again.

 

one flaw he never says that is amplifies his fighting ability.  In fact he says that he could of beat them easier w/o that ability.  Plus soon after he played around with it he faught Szeth and finds out he could do something far more then just stick people to the floor or wall.  He put far more practice into flying then he did with the sticky whatever you want to call it.  So far every power up hasn't given anyone new info on how to use there abilities just makes them easier to use, which i like that they have to learn not just all of a sudden just know how to do everything.  Another point he never really fought on the ground after that in the open his big fight was in the air.  The other fights he was still trying to hide what he could do so if he just stuck the fighters in the ring to the ground it wouldn't of been true to his character.

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[Galavantes]

Good to know. I am not satisfied there. On top of that, I did make the argument that I wish Shallan had used Soulcasting. I wrote a blog about how those things just fell off of the map and 90% of the book felt like a side step instead of progression. Shallan could have soulcast to help them out of the chasms plenty of times, but she pretends she can only use Illusions! WHY? Because Jasnah said not to use it and it is dangerous? It's not a logical move to abstain from practicing if Jasnah is gone. She will have to try on her own at some point. 

 

 

We saw her try to soulcast a stick into fire, which we would assume should be a pretty simple soulcast, only to have the stick basically tell her to go away. Her illusions on the other hand came to her pretty easily, so it makes sense that she leaned on those. Especially in a life or death moment.

I suppose we could have seen her try some more soulcasting, but Brandon obviously didn't want her to have that particular tool yet, so it would have just been more scenes of her trying and failing.

[Scriptorian he/him]

Jumping in here, I always assumed (and still kind of do) that the "whatever-it-is" on the original cover was just a bag filled with infused spheres. I defiantly don't see it as a gemheart, or a puddle of stormlight. I also never really felt the lack of future mention of the gemheart was significant. Remember, Kaladin had just lost Syl. He probably wasn't thinking about having a super-stormlight battery to carry around. And it is probably pretty hard to carry a gemheart around inconspicuously. It might be significant later on, but I don't think it's worth arguing about.

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

We saw her try to soulcast a stick into fire, which we would assume should be a pretty simple soulcast, only to have the stick basically tell her to go away. Her illusions on the other hand came to her pretty easily, so it makes sense that she leaned on those. Especially in a life or death moment.

I suppose we could have seen her try some more soulcasting, but Brandon obviously didn't want her to have that particular tool yet, so it would have just been more scenes of her trying and failing.

 

That hardly counts.I don't think one unsuccessful try in Chapter 7 was really utilizing the skill like a growing protagonist might attempt. 

 

 

Jumping in here, I always assumed (and still kind of do) that the "whatever-it-is" on the original cover was just a bag filled with infused spheres. I defiantly don't see it as a gemheart, or a puddle of stormlight. I also never really felt the lack of future mention of the gemheart was significant. Remember, Kaladin had just lost Syl. He probably wasn't thinking about having a super-stormlight battery to carry around. And it is probably pretty hard to carry a gemheart around inconspicuously. It might be significant later on, but I don't think it's worth arguing about.

 

It's never been worth arguing about. It has always been worth considering which is why I'm trying to make myself clear so that people can get past an insignificant difference and consider the question. 

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

Yeah, I think Kaladin and Shallan bringing the gemheart out of the chasms was more of a just, "Hey, look. We're badass" kind of deal. And that started having Dalinar suspect Kaladin was the one he was looking for.

And it nicely sums up the Death Rattle from the first book that neatly fits this scenario. I didn't really notice anything else odd about the gemheart. I don't think it's some sort of Chekov's Gun or whatever at this point. The main scene was kaladin and Shallan fighting the Chasmfiend. I knew I was thinking "hey, maybe they should use Shallan's shardblade to harvest that gemheart", because that's just a natural assumption of what they'd do.

At least, that's my take on this. Who knows? Maybe Book 3 or WoB will come out and show it is important, somehow.

[Devo]

I don't see how a Full Lashing would serve any purpose whatsoever in the fight with Szeth. What use could it possibly have been? Kaladin probably didn't use it because he was too busy flying around stabbing with his brand new Syl-powered Omni-Weapon. "WHY DIDN'T HE FULLY USE EVERY POWER HE HAS?!". Because jamming power usage in to places that it doesn't fit is super lame and serves no purpose. No aspect of that fight could have been cooler or more effective by Kaladin sticking something together It probably would have felt totally useless and arbitrary and rational people would be saying, "Did he really have to use every possible version of his powers just for the sake of using them?"

 

For those who still wish there was some use of Full Lashing (and Soulcasting) I've written you a fanfic version:

 

With no time to draw, Shallan Soulcast from air. Kaladin grabbed the picture of a big, yellow smiley face and instictively knew what to do. He filled it with stormlight and stuck it to Szeth's shirt. Szeth was so happy he gave Kaladin his honorblade and said "With this, your power will be multiplied and your Full Lashings will last forever! You are the chosen one!". And that is where stickers come from.

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

I don't see how a Full Lashing would serve any purpose whatsoever in the fight with Szeth. What use could it possibly have been? Kaladin probably didn't use it because he was too busy flying around stabbing with his brand new Syl-powered Omni-Weapon. "WHY DIDN'T HE FULLY USE EVERY POWER HE HAS?!". Because jamming power usage in to places that it doesn't fit is super lame and serves no purpose. No aspect of that fight could have been cooler or more effective by Kaladin sticking something together It probably would have felt totally useless and arbitrary and rational people would be saying, "Did he really have to use every possible version of his powers just for the sake of using them?"

 

For those who still wish there was some use of Full Lashing (and Soulcasting) I've written you a fanfic version:

 

With no time to draw, Shallan Soulcast from air. Kaladin grabbed the picture of a big, yellow smiley face and instictively knew what to do. He filled it with stormlight and stuck it to Szeth's shirt. Szeth was so happy he gave Kaladin his honorblade and said "With this, your power will be multiplied and your Full Lashings will last forever! You are the chosen one!". And that is where stickers come from.

Remember when Kaladin stuck Lopen to a wall? He would use it like that. It sounds like you almost don't remember what the power can do. They were all pretty impressed with it while sparring. I mean he is a bodyguard. Holding back assassins is.... yeah, do I need to explain the ways it is useful? You are going to have a fit when he uses it in a future book, huh? I mean at this rate it might not happen at all. Looks like you have your fingers crossed for that eventuality. 

[MitchSpren2014]

Isn't Kaladin traveling back to Alethkar on the third book? He'll be needing a large amount of stormlight to fuel his Lashings going there. The gemheart might be awarded to him since it was him and Shallan who took it from the chasmfiend. He was told by Dalinar to approach Elokhar to loan him emerald broams, Elokhar being grateful of Kaladin saving him form the assasins will give him a whole emerald instead.

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

Isn't Kaladin traveling back to Alethkar on the third book? He'll be needing a large amount of stormlight to fuel his Lashings going there. The gemheart might be awarded to him since it was him and Shallan who took it from the chasmfiend. He was told by Dalinar to approach Elokhar to loan him emerald broams, Elokhar being grateful of Kaladin saving him form the assasins will give him a whole emerald instead.

That's a great idea. My first thought was that it would be like taking a Camelback (entire backpack of water) on a trip instead of several Dixie cups (thimbles).

[Lugonn]

Remember when Kaladin stuck Lopen to a wall? He would use it like that. 

 

 

Look, I know the book talks about a stormwall, but it isn't a giant brick wall that rages across the land. It's a wall of wind, and you can't glue people to wind.

[Devo]

Look, I know the book talks about a stormwall, but it isn't a giant brick wall that rages across the land. It's a wall of wind, and you can't glue people to wind.

This.

 

I have nothing against Kaladin using whatever powers are useful in a given situation. This discussion has been specifically why he didn't use a Full Lashing in his final fight against Szeth and clearly the answer is because there was literally no way to use it because they were flying around with nothing to stick anyone to. I'd love to see Kaladin using Full Lashings in situations where it makes sense, although I think Full and Reverse are always going to be overshadowed by Basic, simply because the Basic Lashing is just a lot more versatile.

 

Also, gemhearts show up every few days on the Shattered Plains, and they are all property of the king as of the beginning of the book. Elhokar could very well award the gemheart to Kaladin or Shallan, why bother? The Alethi clearly have access to tons of huge gems (as demonstrated by the fact that even in the middle of the weeping there were still enough to power the final fight, the oathgate (x4), and Kaladin's flight home. In the grand scope, one gemheart isn't very exciting. The Knights Radiant are in a position to requisition whatever they need whenever they need it. Will that specific gemheart come back? Maybe, but who cares? If Kaladin wants 10 gemhearts to carry with him to fight Voidbringers or Unmade or whatever else in the next book, just ask and they're his.

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

Look, I know the book talks about a stormwall, but it isn't a giant brick wall that rages across the land. It's a wall of wind, and you can't glue people to wind.

 

It's almost like you'd have to find something else solid..... If only everything on the entire planet was pulled toward something solid..... I don't know what that would be though.... something huge, like planet sized.... 

This.

 

I have nothing against Kaladin using whatever powers are useful in a given situation. This discussion has been specifically why he didn't use a Full Lashing in his final fight against Szeth and clearly the answer is because there was literally no way to use it because they were flying around with nothing to stick anyone to. I'd love to see Kaladin using Full Lashings in situations where it makes sense, although I think Full and Reverse are always going to be overshadowed by Basic, simply because the Basic Lashing is just a lot more versatile.

 

Also, gemhearts show up every few days on the Shattered Plains, and they are all property of the king as of the beginning of the book. Elhokar could very well award the gemheart to Kaladin or Shallan, why bother? The Alethi clearly have access to tons of huge gems (as demonstrated by the fact that even in the middle of the weeping there were still enough to power the final fight, the oathgate (x4), and Kaladin's flight home. In the grand scope, one gemheart isn't very exciting. The Knights Radiant are in a position to requisition whatever they need whenever they need it. Will that specific gemheart come back? Maybe, but who cares? If Kaladin wants 10 gemhearts to carry with him to fight Voidbringers or Unmade or whatever else in the next book, just ask and they're his.

 

Nah.

[Lugonn]

It's almost like you'd have to find something else solid..... If only everything on the entire planet was pulled toward something solid..... I don't know what that would be though.... something huge, like planet sized.... 

 

 

 

This is idiotic. To glue things together you need to touch them together. Kaladin would have to drop Syl , wrestle Szeth hundreds of meters down to the ground while getting cut at with an Honorblade, and stick him to the ground.

 

It's not cool, it's not a viable combat tactic, and it doesn't serve any purpose other than satisfy your weird fetish with using EVERY SINGLE skill in every battle.

[Devo]

It's almost like you'd have to find something else solid..... If only everything on the entire planet was pulled toward something solid..... I don't know what that would be though.... something huge, like planet sized....

 

Everything except Kaladin, Szeth, and all their possessions. Are you seriously saying that Kaladin should have Basic Lashed Szeth down to the ground just so he could use a Full Lashing to stick him to the ground? Basically, we just have to disagree. Your idea of a climactic fight scene seems to necessarily include using every power available, and I think that just makes for really awkward fight scenes that break immersion.

"I own the sky, therefore I will bring this fight to the ground and put you in time out. Full Lashing: check."

Kaladin jumps back, but Szeth is stuck. Szeth pulls out his bow and fires at Kaladin. Kaladin reverse lashes the ground to misdirect the arrow.

"Reverse Lashing: check. Ok now that's out of the way. We can go back to the real fight now."

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

 

 

This is idiotic. To glue things together you need to touch them together. Kaladin would have to drop Syl , wrestle Szeth hundreds of meters down to the ground while getting cut at with an Honorblade, and stick him to the ground.

 

It's not cool, it's not a viable combat tactic, and it doesn't serve any purpose other than satisfy your weird fetish with using EVERY SINGLE skill in every battle.

 

 

 

Everything except Kaladin, Szeth, and all their possessions. Are you seriously saying that Kaladin should have Basic Lashed Szeth down to the ground just so he could use a Full Lashing to stick him to the ground? Basically, we just have to disagree. Your idea of a climactic fight scene seems to necessarily include using every power available, and I think that just makes for really awkward fight scenes that break immersion.

"I own the sky, therefore I will bring this fight to the ground and put you in time out. Full Lashing: check."

Kaladin jumps back, but Szeth is stuck. Szeth pulls out his bow and fires at Kaladin. Kaladin reverse lashes the ground to misdirect the arrow.

"Reverse Lashing: check. Ok now that's out of the way. We can go back to the real fight now."

You two are having the same problem others have already had in this thread: No vision.

As though Brandon Sanderson sits at home, taps into a view of an alternate reality and writes down what he sees. He has artistic license to write literally anything he wants, as he writes fantasy. You are acting as though it is ludicrous to think things could go any differently than how they did as they were written. You sound like you would enjoy forums about historical biographies a bit better than fantastical fiction. Point was never that Kaladin should have done this or that in the scene as it was written obviously. It should have been done at one point or another throughout the entirety of the book! I wish it would have been done in that fight as well. It could have been written that they were on the ground for 10% of it and the reason Szeth took of into the air was because Kaladin got him stuck there for a minute so he took off. Unbelievable, I know. Fantasy.

[akintu]

You two are having the same problem others have already had in this thread: No vision.

As though Brandon Sanderson sits at home, taps into a view of an alternate reality and writes down what he sees. He has artistic license to write literally anything he wants, as he writes fantasy. You are acting as though it is ludicrous to think things could go any differently than how they did as they were written. You sound like you would enjoy forums about historical biographies a bit better than fantastical fiction. Point was never that Kaladin should have done this or that in the scene as it was written obviously. It should have been done at one point or another throughout the entirety of the book! I wish it would have been done in that fight as well. It could have been written that they were on the ground for 10% of it and the reason Szeth took of into the air was because Kaladin got him stuck there for a minute so he took off. Unbelievable, I know. Fantasy.

Personally, I think this is going to tie into a need for training. Kaladin is great with a spear and seems to have an instinctual connection to his lashings, but instinct isn't enough to be a weapon master, and his lashings are a weapon. Perhaps after Hearthstone he will realize he needs to be better. Coincidentally, we've been introduced to a world hopping weapon master who might have the right mentality to pick up lashings and push Kaladin to learn some new tricks. Said weapon master used to wield Szeth's new sword, and also Kaladin has Szeth's honor blade, which grants Windrunner abilities...

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

Personally, I think this is going to tie into a need for training. Kaladin is great with a spear and seems to have an instinctual connection to his lashings, but instinct isn't enough to be a weapon master, and his lashings are a weapon. Perhaps after Hearthstone he will realize he needs to be better. Coincidentally, we've been introduced to a world hopping weapon master who might have the right mentality to pick up lashings and push Kaladin to learn some new tricks. Said weapon master used to wield Szeth's new sword, and also Kaladin has Szeth's honor blade, which grants Windrunner abilities...

 

Yeah I have huge hopes for Zahel to show him how to be an absolute beast. Someone who has experience with some sort of magic.