Bloodfalcon Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I'm positive that the gemheart Kaladin and Shallan brought back from the time they spent in the chasms was supposed to be significant or at least utilized in the final scene between Kaladin and Szeth. The largest piece of evidence is that the original drafts of the cover had what looks to be a greenish gemheart in Kaladin's hand: The build up is good - they go fight a Chasmfiend, they kill it, decide to get the gemheart out, finally make it back - but then Kaladin tosses it on a counter or something and it isn't seen again. What is with that? Does anyone know or have a hypothesis as to why that idea was scrapped? I guess it might downplay Kaladin's abilities if he had the advantage of a giant Gemheart to siphon Stormlight from, but.... I don't know, it seems like it was swapped out to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbauks Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Might have been there to offset the Stormlight difference. Then it got changed up so that the Stormfather rushed the next Highstorm and Szeth + Kaladin had infinite Stormlight to fight with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morsk Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I was expecting the gemheart to be needed because of the Weeping, and smaller gems running out of Stormlight without highstorms. Perhaps some timing issues were changed, with the army striking earlier in the Weeping than originally planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsam Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 This is a really good question; my guess is that there still will be significance to that gemheart, that simply got pushed back from this book due to pacing (or perhaps never was meant to be in this book at all, despite the depiction on the cover) Perhaps the gemheart will contain some secret (perhaps some sort of spren) that's significant to the nature of chasmfields? Maybe there's something unique about killing a chasmfiend other than the ones that are pupating or that can be lured onto the plateaus for a hunt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I am not so sure. One, the glowy thing on the cover really doesn't ring my gemheart bells - it looks too flat. I imagine gemhearts as really big uncut gems. And second, the scene where they bring it back could be there simply because it would look incredibly suspicious (to the reader) if Kaladin and Shallan killed a chasmfiend and then left the insanely valuable gemheart to just sit there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delightful Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 IIRC as Kaladin landed, Bridge 4 members threw a large infused gem-thing at him to recharge his stormlight. It may have just been a lantern, but in my head it was a large gemheart, possibly the one they got from the chasmfiend. Maybe it will be significant later? Or maybe the point of it was entirely to make Shallan and Kaladin look impressive when they return. Or maybe later it will tell Shallan something useful about chasmfiends. It is a bit odd that it wasn't mentioned again, so I'm guessing it'll come up somehow in the next book somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBDx316 Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 IIRC as Kaladin landed, Bridge 4 members threw a large infused gem-thing at him to recharge his stormlight. It may have just been a lantern, but in my head it was a large gemheart, possibly the one they got from the chasmfiend. It was a group of lanterns that had large gems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I am not so sure. One, the glowy thing on the cover really doesn't ring my gemheart bells - it looks too flat. I imagine gemhearts as really big uncut gems. And second, the scene where they bring it back could be there simply because it would look incredibly suspicious (to the reader) if Kaladin and Shallan killed a chasmfiend and then left the insanely valuable gemheart to just sit there. Dude, you are looking at a large uncut gem on that cover. It is glowing too. Honestly it makes more sense NOT to bring it back, as it is really suspicious alongside Kaladin's bite wounds! I think it was supposed to be part of the sequence but got cut. Maybe Brandon didn't expect them to just dip down into they highstorm to recharge initially, or maybe he just didn't want to have to write in Kaladin going through all of the tents trying to find the gemheart. I don't know, but that's what he is holding there. He very clearly doesn't have his hand flat on the ground, and it has a very distinct shape with a glow. IIRC as Kaladin landed, Bridge 4 members threw a large infused gem-thing at him to recharge his stormlight. It may have just been a lantern, but in my head it was a large gemheart, possibly the one they got from the chasmfiend. Maybe it will be significant later? Or maybe the point of it was entirely to make Shallan and Kaladin look impressive when they return. Or maybe later it will tell Shallan something useful about chasmfiends. It is a bit odd that it wasn't mentioned again, so I'm guessing it'll come up somehow in the next book somewhere. Yeah, I think Dalinar's POV or Adolin's would have mentioned the soldiers being in possession of a gemheart and then tossing it on the ground. It would look a bit odd, don't you think? The way they talk about how much they are worth and all that? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Dude, you are looking at a large uncut gem on that cover. It is glowing too. Yea, I don't see it. I can kind of pretend it is a large gem, but I have to try. The perspective is weird to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Yea, I don't see it. I can kind of pretend it is a large gem, but I have to try. The perspective is weird to me. But like is that part of the picture fuzzy when you imagine it? What else could it be? A Shardpuddle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lugonn Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 We've seen Kaladin make stormlight puddles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 We've seen Kaladin make stormlight puddles. You had the entirety of his Szeth fight described to you. DId he make many puddles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) I don't know - it doesn't look like anything to me. It never did - the glowy thing is one of the main reasons I am happy the cover got updated. For all I know it shows Kaladin doing a Full Lashing on the ground in front of him. Or he accidentally dropped his sapphire broam in a puddle of water and is reaching to pull it out before Szeth comes and steals his lunch money. EDIT You had the entirety of his Szeth fight described to you. DId he make many puddles? This is not a good example to me, book covers don't always depict actual scenes from the books. Szeth never stood on top of a pile of bodies, Kaladin never worse a red Rambo-band, and neither the highstorms nor the Everstorm are yellow. Edited March 13, 2014 by Argent 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I don't know - it doesn't look like anything to me. It never did - the glowy thing is one of the main reasons I am happy the cover got updated. For all I know it shows Kaladin doing a Full Lashing on the ground in front of him. Or he accidentally dropped his sapphire broam in a puddle of water and is reaching to pull it out before Szeth comes and steals his lunch money. EDIT This is not a good example to me, book covers don't always depict actual scenes from the books. Szeth never stood on top of a pile of bodies, Kaladin never worse a red Rambo-band, and neither the highstorms nor the Everstorm are yellow. I don't think this was one of those times where the artist was just making things up hoping it would be in the book. Why would Kaladin be pinning a gem to the ground if he didn't get some direction there? A gem that big? It seems like you are able to pass it off as not existing, but the thread is about the gemheart that is actually there in the first draft of the cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Assuming it is a gemheart. Anyway, maybe I am just not seeing what you guys are seeing. I am not contributing anything to the thread, so I'll go talk to my imaginary friends while you talk about imaginary gemhearts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Assuming it is a gemheart. Anyway, maybe I am just not seeing what you guys are seeing. I am not contributing anything to the thread, so I'll go talk to my imaginary friends while you talk about imaginary gemhearts Find me any point in time when Kaladin is above a glowing puddle during the Szeth fight - he is reaching down onto the ground and holding a shiny *anything* and I'll assume it isn't a gemheart. But it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigvsben Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I'm with those who don't see it. The blue patch looks way to flat to be any sort of uncut crystal, not to mention Kaladin's fingers aren't even grasping it. It looks more like he's touching the ground and making it glow to be sure everyone looking at the cover knows he is magic. Besides that, I can't figure out what role the gem would have played in any original draft. Thanks to his massively more efficient Stormlight usage, Kaladin had the total advantage in that fight. The only reason Szeth lasted as long as he did was the Highstorm giving them both infinite Stormlight. If the Highstorm weren't a plot element, bringing a large supply of Stormlight to the fight would really only benefit Szeth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I'm with those who don't see it. The blue patch looks way to flat to be any sort of uncut crystal, not to mention Kaladin's fingers aren't even grasping it. It looks more like he's touching the ground and making it glow to be sure everyone looking at the cover knows he is magic. Besides that, I can't figure out what role the gem would have played in any original draft. Thanks to his massively more efficient Stormlight usage, Kaladin had the total advantage in that fight. The only reason Szeth lasted as long as he did was the Highstorm giving them both infinite Stormlight. If the Highstorm weren't a plot element, bringing a large supply of Stormlight to the fight would really only benefit Szeth. Nah, you can clearly see they are not in the storm yet in that picture, so they still need stormlight (not the scene that the bridgemen dump out lanterns for Kaladin), and his efficiency is not the only factor. If Szeth were to cut a few more limbs of Kaladins, he would need access to tons of Stormlight to heal them. He has every reason to bring a large gem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 No idea about the cover, but this “They come from the pit, two dead men, a heart in their hands, and I know that I have seen true glory.” seems to indicate that the gemheart is significant. Now I will acknowledge that that epigraph could be seen to refer to Kaladin and Adolin in the dueling arena, but I think it fits this better. There were 3 "dead men" in the arena, and no heart. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galavantes Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) I'm with Argent. Never looked like a gem to me. And as he said the cover art does not perfectly describe any scene, so we can't take its details too seriously. To me it always looked like the artist's rendition of Kaladin pooling stormlight. Edit: I just realized the cover was actually updated. Looks like someone thought it wasn't a good enough depiction of Kaladin using stormlight. More reason to think it was never supposed to be a gem. Edited March 13, 2014 by Galavantes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I'm with Argent. Never looked like a gem to me. And as he said the cover art does not perfectly describe any scene, so we can't take its details too seriously. To me it always looked like the artist's rendition of Kaladin pooling stormlight. Edit: I just realized the cover was actually updated. Looks like someone thought it wasn't a good enough depiction of Kaladin using stormlight. More reason to think it was never supposed to be a gem. You are actively ignoring the only scene on the Shattered Plains outside of the warcamps where Szeth and Kaladin are near each other. It specifically points to one scene, actually. Based on where Kaladin's hand is (in front of him depth-wise) he is not touching that puddle. So why would it be there? Especially in the context of the scene where he never makes a puddle once. I can't see why anyone would purposely ignore the entire glowing green thing in his hand because they don't see it as a good picture of a gemheart and then not even have an alternative possibility that makes sense in context. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I like this! No idea about the cover, but this seems to indicate that the gemheart is significant. Now I will acknowledge that that epigraph could be seen to refer to Kaladin and Adolin in the dueling arena, but I think it fits this better. There were 3 "dead men" in the arena, and no heart. I like that the two men could be a man and a woman. The cover, to me clearly is meant to depict the moment when Kaladin lands after saving Dalinar and before fighting Szeth. And then, like a falling star, a blazing fireball of light and motion shot down in front of Dalinar. It crashed into the ground, sending out a ring of stormlight like white smoke. At the center, a figure in blue crouched with one hand on the stones, the other clutching a glowing Shardblade. The scene may not be exact, but for me, avoiding spoilers and artistic license covers the differences. I guess there could have been an earlier version where Shallan and Kaladin show up at the climactic battle with a gemheart after being lost, but it is hard to see his crisis not involving the king. Post-crisis, he could not have gotten lost in the canyons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galavantes Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Find me any point in time when Kaladin is above a glowing puddle during the Szeth fight - he is reaching down onto the ground and holding a shiny *anything* and I'll assume it isn't a gemheart. But it is. You're also making assumptions on the art that aren't supported by the text, Ie: find me any point in time when Kaladin is crouched down and holding a gem heart. That argument doesn't work. . I can't see why anyone would purposely ignore the entire glowing green thing in his hand because they don't see it as a good picture of a gemheart and then not even have an alternative possibility that makes sense in context. We have an entirely plausible explanation: Artistic license. It seems obvious that after further review someone on the team decided that the original depiction didn't fit the descriptions in the text and it was changed to better depict what it was always supposed to be, which is Kaladin landing and glowing with stormlight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightflame Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Unless Brandonalsium is trying to mislead us for some reason, the "two dead men" death rattle is definitely referring to Kaladin and Shallan, because the chapter where they climb out of the pit is called "True Glory". Similarly (unrelated but being brought up for the hell of it), "All is withdrawn from me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds." almost certainly refers to when Kaladin spoke his Third Oath, because a chapter focused on how much Kaladin hates Elhokar is called "The One Who Killed Promises". 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Nice catch on those chapter titles there! Have you looked through all of the Death Rattles & chapter titles to see if there are more of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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