Why we have not seen dragons (because maybe we have...)

[ZenBossanova]

Fact: On Yolen before the Shattering, there were three races, Humans, Sho-Del, and Dragons. 

Theory (with a heafy grain of salt): Each of these have a primary aspect in a different realm.
Specifically, Humans:Physical Realm, Sho-Del:Cognitive Realm, and Dragons:Spiritual Realm. Of course, we have very, very little evidence to base this on. It is a weak theory at this point.

Observation: We have only (apparently) seen humans on the different Shardworlds. Why? 

Proposal: I propose it is because it differs between races, what they consider most essential about their race. 
In other words, if you met a being that looked human, but thought differently from you, and/or had a different spiritual outlook from you, you might agree or disagree with that being, but you would call it human. But this may simply be our human perspective. 

What would a Sho-Del consider to be the defining characteristic of their race? Would they care at all about the physical appearance, if the cognitive aspect were there? 

What would a dragon say about a being that had their spiritual powers, but looked or thought differently? 

Note, that (in the very non-canon) chapters Brandon has released on Yolen, Frost the dragon appears, at times, quite human. 

We may have been looking at Dragons and Sho-Del the entire time, and have not realized it. 

Edited March 23, 2018 by ZenBossanova

[Calderis]

Interesting idea, though I doubt it. 

The only thing we have canon about the Sho Del at this point is that they exist, and that Uli Da was one of them. 

For Dragons though, we have been told that they are the one traditional fantasy race that exists in the Cosmere, and that they are of the shape-shifting, can-appear-human-at-will variety. 

Quote

Questioner

The second question is about dragons! One race, on Yolen, are dragons with the ability to shift. I'm positively sure that we haven't seen any dragons in dragon form around yet. How about in human form, and would it be possible to actually recognize a human dragon?

Brandon Sanderson

So, the question is, I haven't written the book yet, but one of the books I've talked about that is the origin of all of this is called Dragonsteel, and there are dragons in it! 'Cause, like I said, 'Why not? Why wouldn't you?' And she's asking about Dragonsteel. Have we seen dragons hidden among the characters in the books that we have seen. You have very likely seen -

Questioner

A letter.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you have seen a letter from a dragon. And you... there are some that are off-world, and so you might have seen them. I won't tell you for sure, but you would not recognize them.

source

 

Edited March 23, 2018 by Calderis

[ZenBossanova]

@Calderis

Certainly, we don't know much about the Sho Del, but what you quote about dragons, suggests that what is essentially Dragon-ish about them is NOT their physical state. They can change that, so what makes them different from others, must be other than their physical form, because they are shape-shifting. 

[Storyspren]

Buzz-kill but maybe sho-del are just aimians or Parshmen etc.

[Muerthe]

How about a theory that Hoid is a dragon? That would partially explain changing apparition and I don't remember anything saying he is actually human.

I know that in Liar of Partinel you see him starting his 'career', but on the other hand it's not canon at the moment, so...

[JoelyWoely]

5 hours ago, Storyspren said:

Buzz-kill but maybe sho-del are just aimians or Parshmen etc.

No definitely not, it's essentially common knowledge the Sho-Del are from Yolen. 

[Yata]

11 hours ago, Storyspren said:

Buzz-kill but maybe sho-del are just aimians or Parshmen etc.

it's confirmed the Sho Del is a Yolen's race.

6 hours ago, Muerthe said:

How about a theory that Hoid is a dragon? That would partially explain changing apparition and I don't remember anything saying he is actually human.

I know that in Liar of Partinel you see him starting his 'career', but on the other hand it's not canon at the moment, so...

Hoid knows some Dragons (at least one) but he is not himself a dragon. He started as human (by WoB) but now he is something no more humans for all what happened to him.

I don't understand your point about "explain changing apparition", could you elaborate ?

[Jeffo]

6 hours ago, Muerthe said:

How about a theory that Hoid is a dragon? That would partially explain changing apparition and I don't remember anything saying he is actually human.

I know that in Liar of Partinel you see him starting his 'career', but on the other hand it's not canon at the moment, so...

I'm fairly certain there is WOB that states Hoid Cant really be called human any more but that he was originally? 

[Yata]

21 minutes ago, Jeffo said:

I'm fairly certain there is WOB that states Hoid Cant really be called human any more but that he was originally? 

here for you:

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

 Is Hoid human?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Hoid was human a long time ago. Now... it's complicated. We would call him human, and so will pretty much everyone else, but he is not exactly that.

source

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Questioner

Where Hoid and Frost some of the older humans created by Adonalsium?

Brandon Sanderson

You will find that out eventually… Frost is not a human.

source

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Axies (paraphrased)

Is Hoid human?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes... but. Hoid is... you can say that he is still human, but his DNA have changed. Now he is human but you wouldn't call him Homo sapiens anymore. It happens something similar with the Steel Inquisitors

source

Quote

heroofpages

I was going through the compiled WoB and came across two interesting pieces of information. So I guess a lead in question, you said that Hoid isn't quite human, so I was wondering if he wasn't quite human in the same way that inquisitors aren't quite human (i.e. alterations to spiritual DNA etc.)? And if so does he get his many investiture based powers in a similar way?

Brandon Sanderson

You are asking the right questions, and are thinking along correct lines.

source

 

[Muerthe]

1 hour ago, Yata said:

I don't understand your point about "explain changing apparition", could you elaborate ?

I meant that in for example SA he has white hair, while in some other book (don't remember which now) I remember him having black hair. It was my argument for him being shape-shifting dragon instead of lightweaving human, but I was corrected as you can see.

[Yata]

46 minutes ago, Muerthe said:

I meant that in for example SA he has white hair, while in some other book (don't remember which now) I remember him having black hair. It was my argument for him being shape-shifting dragon instead of lightweaving human, but I was corrected as you can see.

Understood. First of all he is a confirmed Yolish Lightweaver. BUt mainly he uses mundane way to mask himself...like dying his hair or using fake beards/noses

Edited March 26, 2018 by Yata

[Storyspren]

Hmm mm two questions you guys could help me out with maybe:

1) do we know where the aimians are originally from for sure?

2) Do we know that Hoid was born from human parents? Could he have been created as it were de novo? Human but with a different origin story than most humans? (In a similar way that Smurfette is a smurf but started as an idea of gargamel's.)

[Yata]

13 hours ago, Storyspren said:

Hmm mm two questions you guys could help me out with maybe:

1) do we know where the aimians are originally from for sure?

Nope, actually there are debates on their origin.

13 hours ago, Storyspren said:

2) Do we know that Hoid was born from human parents? Could he have been created as it were de novo? Human but with a different origin story than most humans? (In a similar way that Smurfette is a smurf but started as an idea of gargamel's.)

It's possible but unlikely for the actual Canon Hoid doesn't seems to be' a magical being of sort, ne has also (by WoB) at least a brother and while this doesn't proof something...It's a clue in his standard origin.