[OB] A bit disappointing

[Raistlin]

I just finished the book and everything still needs time (and maybe a reread) to settle down but so far I have to admit that out of the three published so far, this one is my least favorite.
Of course there were parts I really enjoyed but the end result lacked that epic feeling I got used to from SA 1&2.

There was a lot of emphasis on politics and while I agree that it's very realistic and very necessary in building a wartime alliance from scratch, it was also a tedious read. I just couldn't find the energy to care about any of it.
Shadesmear arc was also hard to read. It's awesome as world building goes, but it separated the story into two completely unrelated story arcs, both equally boring where nothing seemed to move anywhere. Reminded me of LOTR 1 where it took the hobbits 50 pages just to leave the shire only to end up in the forest for another 150 pages. Also LOTR 2 and 3.

Too many new characters and nations made it difficult for me to care about any of them and took screen time from the characters I learned to love from previous books. The City of the last battle? Shame what happened, but the only interesting thing about it is Dalinar and the radiants and really, that last battle could have been anywhere..

Dalinar is awesome and his defiance of Odium was pure awesomeness and I want to see him being this awesome all the time.
On the other hand, his backstory felt a bit off. Evi's death was a horrid event but in the end, it wasn't the thing that triggered Dalinar's breakdown and her voice was just another one in a sea of crying victims. When Dalinar went looking for NightWatcher he didn't want to ask for anything directly related to her. With all the mystery surrounding his wife's memory it was a bit underwhelming to learn that her vanished memory was an afterthought.

I liked part 3 (?) with the different POVs from Bridge Four. I hope we get to see more from them, especially the parshman. He's cool.
I also hope they still remain as a group seeing how half of them are radiants now.

Kaladin is still a favorite and it's a shame that he didn't have more screen time. I was anticipating his fourth ideal but I like it that he couldn't say it yet. Makes sense in the story and gives something to look forward to. I do wish he would stop with the identity/morality-crisis-per-book thing he has going on. I feel like we're going in circles.

Adolin is another favorite and while I know that he wasn't a popular character, I hope this book will change minds about that. I wish him and Maya only the best.
Dalinar's reaction to the murder felt out of character for him, but maybe it will be addressed again in later books.

Shallan is not a favorite.
I'm sorry, but I just can't seem to like her. At all.
Book 2 did warm her to me, but it was all ruined in this one. I don't know why but something with her just doesn't sit well.
And how does her powers work? Everyone else have some kind of explanation but lightweaving is so weird. Shallan also seems like a prodigy of sorts. I can believe that others have off-screen training but with Shallan we're there for every step of the way and she still does stuff just because. She can't make illusions with sound but then she can. She has to have a picture as a basis until she doesn't. Was it mentioned anywhere? What did I miss?
I do like Veil though. Shallan is clearly crazy so I have hope for Veil to be a free agent at some point.

Szeth and Lift should only go on adventures with each other. I petition for a book (or a very long novel) about the two of them roaming the world and maybe solving crimes.
Skybreakers as an order are very orderly. I hope Szeth learned as much as he can from them and will teach the other new radiants about the, well, order of the orders.
At this point the word "order" has lost its meaning, but I hope my point is clear.

Venli is a nice addition to the cast. I'm curious to see what will happen to her.
I hope the tiny spern (Timber? Tinder?) is not Eshonai herself because that will be another dead character being not so dead after all. It's nice, but let me grieve for Eshonai (who was awesome) and move on.

Renarin is kinda there? I know he and his spern are a never-to-be-seen-before wonder but more attention to the character wouldn't have hurt.

Ellokhar will be missed, I guess. He is one of the characters that suffered the most from the multitude of new charcters and POVs in this book. He finally got some focus on himself and really grew as a character but I can't shake the feeling that if it was a less crowded book, I would have cared more about his death.

Odium is a surprise. I didn't think he'll take an active part in the war. I thought he's only an influencing force but here he is, doing things, commanding stuff.

The parshmen are interesting. I honestly didn't expect their rebellion to be so ordinary and organized. It was a really refreshing take on "the forces of evil going on destroying the world".

Worldhoppers and Cosmere.
I know that Roshar is part of the cosmere and all, but I feel like this book crossed the line between funny references to active interference.
Azure is not a minor character at all and has more story time than Renarin!
I might be in the minority in this, but I really don't like the idea (or the execution, in this case) of cross worlds story line. Let each world stand on its own.
I did read the relevant books (even though I don't remember them in detail) and I'm curious to know what new readers think about it.

[recneps]

I agree with you on nearly everything.. Except for the Cosmere Connectivity. I like the books colliding. I feel like them tying into each other in minor ways is a good thing.. It gives depth and believability to the fact that we have main characters with Realmatic knowledge. It's not just the main main characters who know that the world works this way, there are others who do too, and they know it better. They know it well enough to make it practical.

[Angsos]

In a ten book series there have to be politics and other non blazing action parts. In a trilogy or single book you might be able to get away with straight up action but not 10 books.

[The One Who Connects]

Facts & WoBs:

1 hour ago, Raistlin said:

She can't make illusions with sound but then she can. She has to have a picture as a basis until she doesn't. Was it mentioned anywhere? What did I miss?

Well, Pattern does mention(in.. WoR?) that she shouldn't be limited to using a reference picture. In Pattern's understanding, that her limitations are ones that a normal Lightweaver shouldn't have. Several of the things she does near the end are things she should have already been able to do, and she seems so far advanced in comparison because she's basically taking two steps up.

Her suddenly Lightweaving without pictures and Lightweaving with sound were extra bonuses on top of the stuff that actually was new.

1 hour ago, Raistlin said:

I hope the tiny spren (Timber? Tinder?) is not Eshonai herself because that will be another dead character being not so dead after all. It's nice, but let me grieve for Eshonai (who was awesome) and move on.

They are separate characters. Brandon has explicitly confirmed that. (Also, it's Timbre)

2 hours ago, Raistlin said:

Skybreakers as an order are very orderly. I hope Szeth learned as much as he can from them and will teach the other new radiants about the, well, order of the orders.

Kaladin and Dalinar have a military background. Jasnah likes when people have their affairs in order. The KR, barring Lift's Edgedancers, are in good hands when it comes to being organized.

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Opinions on the Book:

1 hour ago, Raistlin said:

There was a lot of emphasis on politics and while I agree that it's very realistic and very necessary in building a wartime alliance from scratch, it was also a tedious read. I just couldn't find the energy to care about any of it.

I don't know how the political stuff changed as the book went further on, but what was contained within Part 1(Dalinar & Taravangian's political/moral discussions, the Iri talks during Dalinar's duel with Kadash, etc..) was pretty enjoyable for me to read through.

Were there any spots in particular that felt tedious to you or was it just politics in general? It might be that you just aren't a fan of that sub-genre, rather than anything to do with the writing.

1 hour ago, Raistlin said:

Evi's death was a horrid event but in the end, it wasn't the thing that triggered Dalinar's breakdown and her voice was just another one in a sea of crying victims. When Dalinar went looking for Nightwatcher he didn't want to ask for anything directly related to her. With all the mystery surrounding his wife's memory it was a bit underwhelming to learn that her vanished memory was an afterthought.

While I can certainly understand this type of reaction, the main reason Evi's death was a specific mystery rather than "one in a sea" like you said after losing the memories is because she was a part of his life. The sea of unnamed victims affected him when he remembered, but without that memory, he'd have to fill in the gaps. He realized there was a gap involving the events at Rathalas when Kadash reminded him of that event, whereas Dalinar was almost certainly reminded of his missing wife much earlier.

That quirk to Brandon's writing of Dalinar was reflected in our theorizing about his missing memories. We knew about the wife(and only that) for a long while, so our theories were centered around that and nothing else. We made a big deal about the loss of his wife because we, and Dalinar, weren't aware there was more to that story. Had we known about this mysterious "Rathalas event" around the time we'd learned that Dalinar couldn't remember his wife, we'd have been theorizing about that event instead of about her(which is pretty much exactly what happened when we got the preview chapter hinting at Rathalas).

In the end, Evi's death was a big deal because we made it a big deal. And we made it a big deal because Brandon decided to withhold information from Dalinar, which in turn withheld information from us. The big deal got hidden from a character, so the readers decided to make a big deal of their own.

2 hours ago, Raistlin said:

I know that Roshar is part of the cosmere and all, but I feel like this book crossed the line between funny references to active interference.
Azure is not a minor character at all and has more story time than Renarin!

This depends on the character in question. Nightblood and Zahel, for instance, were Stormight Characters first, with Warbreaker created to be their backstory. Hoid is Hoid, and is to be expected. Don't know about the others as of yet.

[TheGoddessBeyond]

Politics - like the scene where Navani describes every single chair?

Shadesmar - I agree. It is a really cool place that I hoped to see eventually. But the whole time they were there, I just wanted to get "back to the action". 

I attribute Shallan's new control over her lightweaving to the Oath she spoke at the end of WoR (admitting she killed her mother). I believe something very similar happened to Kaladin's powers at the start of WoR.

New characters and nations - and cities and unmade and fused and odium. And there is just a ton of stuff going on. It is hard to keep track of on a first reading. We've lost the shattered plains as the center of everything we care about. And it will never be that simple again.

BUT - We have a lot of time between SA books to think about what the next one will be like. I remember being fairly discontented the first time I finished WoR. (And there were quite a few posts then expressing the same feelings you have here.) Now WoR is one of my all time favorites. There is a ton of stuff I loved about OB. With more time, I hope to appreciate it for the story it is, instead of what I speculated it would be.

 

[Carla Bridge Four]

I loved the chair scene @TheGoddessBeyond  and I adore Navani "bringing order to chaos".

But I agree completly with your last statement. On time, we finally accept what Brandon gives and not what we imagined. 

Sidenote, I loved OB, but I can understand people feeling underwhelmed. 

[Wandering Investor]

This pretty accurately described how I felt. It was a good book, bordering great, but not like the other two. More than anything, it reminded me of books 6-10ish of the Wheel of Time series. Absolutely important logistically for the story to advance, but suffering in quality. But that Dalinar scene at the end was 10/10 still, so a good book.

 

I disagree with the world hoppers, I want more, let the interference get bigger! That said, I understand how it can be jarring, especially for new readers. But the Stormlight Archives are a major turning point for the entire cosmere (somehow), and I love the epic feel of galaxy wide consequences. 

[Rogueshar]

I loved OB, I had a few complaints, but nothing that turned me off. I really like the interconnecting with the books series. I loved Vivienne in Warbreaker, she was one of my favorite characters and I loved seeing her again in OB.

On 3/5/2018 at 5:16 PM, Wandering Investor said:

This pretty accurately described how I felt. It was a good book, bordering great, but not like the other two. More than anything, it reminded me of books 6-10ish of the Wheel of Time series. Absolutely important logistically for the story to advance, but suffering in quality. But that Dalinar scene at the end was 10/10 still, so a good book.

I'm reading Book 8 of WoT right now and I haven't felt like they've lacked quality. Except LoC that one dragged for me. Off topic sorry.

I definitely agree that they are important for the stories advancing but I didn't feel that OB lacked any quality. I felt as if all of my expectations of what I though OB would be were shattered and were way more than what I had expected them to be. Odium showing up was really cool and I enjoyed him. Dalinar's flashbacks were some of my favorite things to read, he was not what I had expected and it made me love his character even more. It also made me realize a bit more of the relationship between Adolin and Dalinar in WoK is a bit newer than I expected it to be. (And Dalinar and Renarin as well). 

It didn't feel like a disappointment to me, but I also loved Last Jedi and that has been a source of contention on the internet as well. So take this as you will.