Mojoran Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) One of the most fascinating parts of the Stormlight Archive to me so far is the Old Magic and how it affects people. We got more clarification in WoR when Wyndle in the Lift interlude refers to the Old Magic/Nightwatcher as his mother. I thought that it would be good to put together a list of the people who have been affected by the Old Magic and what we know they received and what happened to them because of it. Dalinar - Received: ??? , Punishment: Forgot Wife Lift - Received: Get stormlight from food and can touch spren , Punishment: ??? Taravangian - Received: Intelligence , Punishment: Intelligence OR Compassion Av’s brother (Interlude 1-7 WoK) - Received: ???, Punishment: Numb Hands Av’s father - Received: “a heap of good cloth” , Punishment: Saw world upside down It is also mentioned by Dalinar that “you’d be surprised how many devout lighteyes turn to the Old Magic at one point in their lives or another. The ones who can make it to the Valley, at least” (Chap 61, WoK) There must be some trick to getting there as Av’s entire family except him has gone but not everyone can do it. Also the punishments seem very random and seem to be things that while not pleasant do not affect the askers life significantly. What are other peoples thoughts on the Old Magic and the Nightwatcher? (if I missed anyone shown going to the old magic just post in the thread and I’ll update it) Edited March 10, 2014 by Mojoran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Taravangian says his curse is compassion (which is odd but okay...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythcantor Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I like the idea that Taravangian's curse is intelligence and his gift was compassion. He asked for the "capacity" to save his kingdom. Perhaps with enough compassion, he could have, but because his intelligence seems to undermine his compassion... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jreengus Occured Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I like the idea that Taravangian's curse is intelligence and his gift was compassion. He asked for the "capacity" to save his kingdom. Perhaps with enough compassion, he could have, but because his intelligence seems to undermine his compassion... Ninjad, this was my initial thought but then I wondered if it could go one step further. Both the compassion and the intelligence were his gift. Together they could be used to save his kingdom the curse could then be that he can only have one of them at a time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoran Posted March 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) Ninjad, this was my initial thought but then I wondered if it could go one step further. Both the compassion and the intelligence were his gift. Together they could be used to save his kingdom the curse could then be that he can only have one of them at a time. I really like this idea, Initially I though he was saying that having compassion was like a curse but not being able to use his compassion and intelligence together could definitely be it. Although he shows extreme intelligence I don't know that he shows extreme compassion. Edited March 10, 2014 by Mojoran 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eejit Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Dalinar - Received: ??? , Punishment: Forgot Wife Received = getting over his grief? Seems like a fair use of the genie-wish trope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I really like this idea, Initially I though he was saying that having compassion was like a curse but not being able to use his compassion and intelligence together could definitely be it. Although he shows extreme intelligence I don't know that he shows extreme compassion. He never gets the chance to use his compassion. Every time he is extremly compassionate he is also dumb and whe he is dumb his "advisor" dosen´t let him make any decicions. So his compassionate self coudn´t even follow some gut instinct to perfect the diagramm. I also like the "both compassion and intelligence is needed" theory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadewolf Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 There must be some trick to getting there as Av’s entire family except him has gone but not everyone can do it. I think it's more due to the fact that the Nightwatcher is located a pretty fair distance from Alethakar, that someone might not be able to make it to her in time, or don't have the means to get there. When I first heard of dalinars curse I thought he went the nightwatcher to get her to erase her from his mind, but the curse was also forgetting why he wanted to forget as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PudgyNinja Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 One of the most fascinating parts of the Stormlight Archive to me so far is the Old Magic and how it affects people. We got more clarification in WoR when Wyndle in the Lift interlude refers to the Old Magic as his mother. Just a clarification. I'm fairly certain that Wyndle was referring to Nightwatcher as his mother and not the Old Magic, directly. Much in the same way that Syl refers to the Stormfather as her father. It makes sense since she's related to windspren. If the Stormfather is the spren left behind after the Almighty was killed, Nightwatcher may be the spren left behind when Cultivation was killed. It would make sense since both are apparently capable of great feats (granting wishing, summoning storms) that ordinary spren cannot. It would also make sense that a plant-based spren would think of the spren of Cultivation to be his mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I should point out that we don't really know which of those things are boons, and which are curses. Dalinar's memory loss could be a boon - he could've gone there and asked to have the memories of his wife removed because they were too painful. So let's not assume too many things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoran Posted March 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I should point out that we don't really know which of those things are boons, and which are curses. Dalinar's memory loss could be a boon - he could've gone there and asked to have the memories of his wife removed because they were too painful. So let's not assume too many things. I take your point, however I feel like even if it was the boon he asked for Dalinar's memory loss is now seen as a curse by him as his tone is regretful when he thinks about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spark Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Also the punishments seem very random and seem to be things that while not pleasant do not affect the askers life significantly. I don't think they are. At least in the case of Taravangian and probably Dalinar they seem to create a sort of balance - either one of perspective or an actual one. I get the feeling that might be true at least for most of the boons/curses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I like the idea that Taravangian's curse is intelligence and his gift was compassion. He asked for the "capacity" to save his kingdom. Perhaps with enough compassion, he could have, but because his intelligence seems to undermine his compassion... I had the same thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seloun Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Might be reading too much into this, but... during Kaladin's captivity, Dalinar talks about how Roshone got out of control: “I suppose I owe you this,” Dalinar said. “But it is not to be spread around. Roshone was a petty man who gained Elhokar’s ear. Elhokar was crown prince then, commanded to rule over Kholinar and watch the kingdom while his father organized our first camps here in the Shattered Plains. I was . . . away at the time. “Anyway, do not blame Elhokar. He was taking the advice of someone he trusted. Roshone, however, sought his own interests instead of those of the Throne. He owned several silversmith shops . . . well, the details are not important. Suffice it to say that Roshone led the prince to make some errors. I cleared it up when I returned.” The hesitation when mentions that he was 'away' implies to me that it was something he's sensitive about or ashamed of. If this is related to his seeking the Old Magic, what would he have gone to ask for? This is shortly after meeting the Parshendi (we know Dalinar was the first to meet with them) but before Gavilar's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramble Thorn Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) I think "punishment" is the wrong word. Better would be price. You ask for the Nightwatcher to use her power on you for a purpose of yours. She does, and is then allowed to use her power on you for a purpose of hers. It does not have to be a curse, and does not have to be proportional/related to what you ask. That one day experienced by Taravangion allowed him to see the actions he needed to take to make changes several years into the future. to try and set up a multi stage butterfly effect. Likely the Nightwatcher has similar ability, full time, and the see the repercussions of actions, and some inkling of how making someone see upside down, or speak backwards, will or won't change subsequent events. They may even be the same thing. In Taravangion's case there may not even be a curse component to separate from what was given to him. He did not ask to be smart enough so he could figure a way out of this mess, or make any other assumptions, which may have been wrong and hindered him. He basically trusted the genie. If there was more than one way to give him the capacity to save the world, and one of those worked for the Nightwatcher, she may have saved time and effort by giving him that and calling it a day. Edited March 11, 2014 by Bramble Thorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybera Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Dalinar - Received: ??? , Punishment: Forgot Wife It seems like you are assuming here. What makes you think that forgetting his wife was not the gift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laryna Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Just a clarification. I'm fairly certain that Wyndle was referring to Nightwatcher as his mother and not the Old Magic, directly. Much in the same way that Syl refers to the Stormfather as her father. It makes sense since she's related to windspren. If the Stormfather is the spren left behind after the Almighty was killed, Nightwatcher may be the spren left behind when Cultivation was killed. It would make sense since both are apparently capable of great feats (granting wishing, summoning storms) that ordinary spren cannot. It would also make sense that a plant-based spren would think of the spren of Cultivation to be his mother. Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 281018368 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 324663600 bytes) in Unknown on line 0Exactly my thoughts. Stormfather- spren of Honor, Nightwatcher- spren of Cultivation. Makes me think if there could be a spren of Odium too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranstang94 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Just a clarification. I'm fairly certain that Wyndle was referring to Nightwatcher as his mother and not the Old Magic, directly. Much in the same way that Syl refers to the Stormfather as her father. It makes sense since she's related to windspren. If the Stormfather is the spren left behind after the Almighty was killed, Nightwatcher may be the spren left behind when Cultivation was killed. It would make sense since both are apparently capable of great feats (granting wishing, summoning storms) that ordinary spren cannot. It would also make sense that a plant-based spren would think of the spren of Cultivation to be his mother. I thought Cultivation was still alive. Hoid made a comment that there was "Only one woman his age around here, and they never got along". seems like the Nightwatcher could actually be Cultivation. probably not, she is probably a spren but, if Cultivation is alive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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