[OB] Skybreakers - Can They Hide in Shadows?

[Subvisual Haze]

It's been a bit of a running theme that Nale is stealthy.  You could just call this a classic creepy plot device, but perhaps there's something more going on here?  Lift quite appropriately nicknamed him "Darkness" as he seems to have a supernatural tendency to just appear from the shadows when ambushing his victims like Ym.  He also dramatically appears at a meeting of the Skybreakers, interrupting Szeth's 3rd oath without anyone seeming to notice him beforehand.  Again, could be just be a dramatic plot element, but it also might be something more. 

The Highspren themselves seem to be highly elusive, rarely seen or even heard by their Radiants, communicating to them mostly only at night (Ki).  Their appearance in the physical realm is as a very subtle tear in the fabric of reality.  The element/essence of the Skybreakers/Highspren also seems to connect to this phenomina: smoke.  Even their fortress overlooking the Purelake draws surprisingly little attention.

This got me thinking about surges.  We rather clearly understand gravity, but their second surge has been a bit more opaque (ha!), the surge of Division.  We're repeatedly told by the Skybreaker masters and Nale himself that the surge of division is "dangerous", and Nale offers to train Szeth in its use for his own protection.  Brandon takes care to never show this surge being used by the Skybreakers though, making me wonder if some clever trickery is at work here.

The Surge of Divison: This surge is shared by the Dustbringers and the Skybreakers.  The Ars Acanum describes it as "The Surge of Destruction and Decay".  In Oathbringer we see Malata use the surge to burn a beautiful pattern into a wood table.  This combined with the following quote from The Stormlight Archive Prologue:

Quote

Smoke curled from the occasional patches of growth or heaps of burning corpses. Even some sections of rock smoldered. The Dustbringers had done their work well. [Kalak]

Gives the clear impression that Division is a surge that destroys stuff.  (Side note: I like how Kalak also refers to them as "Dustbringers" even though the author of Words of Radiance implies that The Releasers don't prefer that name).  However, I think it is important to note, that Kalak specifically refers to the Dustbringers when seeing the smouldering rock, not mentioning the Skybreakers.  Perhaps the Skybreaker Division surge manifests in different ways?

I think we have some hints already that surges can work differently for different orders.  Perhaps being more internal versus external in their effects, or having a more spiritual effect versus a physical one.  Jasnah uses Transformation in a much more classic sense, while Shallan seems to use it largely to augment her Illusionary powers (inspiring others to transform themselves with drawings, giving physical weight and properties to her illusions).  The Adhesion surge seems to serve Dalinar and Kaladin in similar (sticking rocks to things) ways sometimes, but the spiritual effects are implied to be quite different.

Finally we have the famous Skybreaker ability to supernaturally separate the guilty from the innocent.  What if this is actually a function of the Skybreakers possessing an ability to be stealthy/hidden.  A kind of physical Division surge they use internally to blend into the shadows, or directly observe criminals at great distances (possibly utilizing the senses of their spren and projecting a piece of themself into it)?  Like a more advanced version of the spying and reconnaissance that Malata uses her spren for.  A Big Brother like ability to observe their prey from the shadows would certainly go a long way to explaining their judgement capabilities.

It's kind of a stretch, but I kind of like the idea of Nale's magic KGB/Inquisition.  Thoughts?

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

Awesome theory @Subvisual Haze, hard to prove or disprove, but very fun to think about. What if they use the surge of division's spiritual aspect to project their consciousness into their highspren?  Like you suggest, this would be an amazingly powerful method of surveillance.

If this is truly the mechanism, maybe this is wherein the danger lies. We've seen from the drooling Fuzed the unpleasant effects of a damaged spirit web, maybe the Skybreaker using this spiritual division likewise run the risk of giving themselves a spiritual lobotomy if they aren't rigorously trained in the use of this surge.

This is a cool enough theory that it has been mentally flagged, my next time through the full SLA (including edgedancer) I'll be on the lookout for details that corroborate or refute this. Overall, awesome idea, and I love how it ties into the essence associated with their order.

 

[Weltall]

Huh, never thought of the possibility before. Given the whole 'Spiritual Adhesion' thing that Bondsmiths are revealed to be capable of (something very different from what Windrunners can do) I imagine that it's possible there are other neat applications of surges that particular Orders can make use of. A form of stealth (even if it's just making it harder for someone to sense your presence rather than a flavor of invisibility) would fit with known Cosmere mechanics and would work well in the context of the Order that serves as the 'Radiant Police' of sorts.

My guess on the 'divide the innocent and guilty' thing is that it's the Skybreaker 'Resonance' in the same way that Windrunners get more/stronger squires, as those perks don't necessarily have to be explained as strictly as the powers and their combination alone can manage. If it was just being able to observe stealthily, I don't think the in-universe Words of Radiance would have mentioned that this talent was believed to be unrelated to the Skybreaker surges. You can make a mental roadmap to the Windrunner perk by looking at their surges (attracting people to you/binding them together as a group) but not entirely certain how you get 'judge guilt' from the combination of Gravitation and Division. The latter's pretty obvious but I'm not sure how Gravitation fits in, except for a silly quote from the Mobile Suit Gundam franchise about 'souls being weighed down by gravity' that won't get out of my head.  But I do think that's probably the source of the power rather than a clever application of Division that's unique to the Order. Like the Windrunner perk, it seems to be a passive thing rather than an active use of the surges. Mind you, I don't think this says anything against your 'Division-based stealth' idea, I'm just thinking there's a different mechanism at work in this specific area.

[RShara she/her]

18 minutes ago, Weltall said:

My guess on the 'divide the innocent and guilty' thing is that it's the Skybreaker 'Resonance' in the same way that Windrunners get more/stronger squires, as those perks don't necessarily have to be explained as strictly as the powers and their combination alone can manage.

Nope, sorry.

 

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Similar to how Lightweavers have, kind of really good memories. Do the Skybreakers have any special abilities for telling guilty and innocent people apart?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

No. Good question.

source

 

[Weltall]

7 minutes ago, RShara said:

Nope, sorry.

Well darn. Of course that opens other possibilities (like Subvisual Haze's 'Division stealth') explaining their powers of judgment so I'm not too broken up about the idea being shot down. xD

Edited February 19, 2018 by Weltall

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

Nice idea. Wouldn't have thought of the Skybreakers as the Order to "cast out their consciousness" since they seem so feet on the earth kind of people. But maybe that is them compensating. 

Random point on how dfferent orders use their surges. I keep thinking Dalinar should be able to fix the Shattered Plains again. And did we get an idea what the Bondsmith Resonance is?

[Nathrangking he/him]

39 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Nice idea. Wouldn't have thought of the Skybreakers as the Order to "cast out their consciousness" since they seem so feet on the earth kind of people. But maybe that is them compensating. 

Random point on how dfferent orders use their surges. I keep thinking Dalinar should be able to fix the Shattered Plains again. And did we get an idea what the Bondsmith Resonance is?

Their resonance is the whole enhance powers situation.

[Calderis he/him]

5 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

And did we get an idea what the Bondsmith Resonance is?

4 hours ago, Nathrangking said:

Their resonance is the whole enhance powers situation.

It's speculated to be the ability to enhance/co-opt/work together with another Radiants surges. 

With how little info we have, it's not clear. 

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

I admit we learnt less of the Bondsmiths than I would have liked in OB.

[Canucck]

On 2/19/2018 at 1:16 PM, Weltall said:

Given the whole 'Spiritual Adhesion' thing that Bondsmiths are revealed to be capable of (something very different from what Windrunners can do) I imagine that it's possible there are other neat applications of surges that particular Orders can make use of.

There is a WoB that sort of suggests that

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/176-oathbringer-chicago-signing/#e8506