Bobobagins Posted March 9, 2014 Author Posted March 9, 2014 Life before death doesn't mean never kill anyone, and Sadeas had just said that he intended to undermine and ultimately kill Dalinar, yes he wasn't expecting to be attacked, but I don't blame Adolin for what he did at all. Also it said that Adolin noted that Sadeas didn 't believe what he was saying but intended to stick to it anyway. I'm down with the idea of Adolin ressurecting his sword, probably to then become a dustbringer. That's what I want to see anyway... Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 281018368 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 328272176 bytes) in Unknown on line 0 I did not state killing was wrong but rather the conditions under which it was carried out where wrong. Adolin for better or worse became the equivalent of an assassin in his act of killing. No one was around Sadias threatened however did not have the chance to carry out his threat there was noone to defend and as for Sadias crimes he seems to have been an indirect tool in helping bring the KR together. Remember the vision Dalinar has in the first book when he asks if he can trust Sadias and is told he will gain honour in doing so well we all know WHO honor is now don't we..... Kaladin. Not that that brings any justification Sadias was an chull however the past crimes have nothing to do with the action of Adolin's killing it the same for Kaladin even before he swore the third oath his compliance with the king's assassination would made him involved in the act not the reason reason has very little to do oaths it's the "nature" of the act that defines it.
Seerow Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 arcmourn: Word of Brandon is there are several Orders that would agree wholeheartedly with what Adolin did. So no, the context of the killing does not disqualify him from becoming a Radiant (and could well be the catalyst that gets him there). 2
Paradox he/him Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) Its not the fact that Adolin killed Sadeas that would disqualify him from being a KR but rather his mindset when carrying it out. Remember Odium is all about anger and rage. Adolin quite literally went into a murderous rage against Sadeas, sure killing him should be applauded I agree completely with that. What i don't agree with is the fact the Adolin basically killed him because he snapped and went batshit. That is most certainly NOT of Honor but is rather a good example of pro-Odium behaviour. That is what i think will disqualify him from being KR, at least for the time being. It could be he resolves his anger issues in the next book and does become a KR, I just dont think that his mindset when killing Sadeas was in any way correct for the KR orders. Edited March 9, 2014 by Paradox
Releaser Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 At first I was skeptical of Adolin getting powers, due to him not hearing a scream when he picked up Oathbringer after killing Sadeas. But after re-reading the Dalinar conversation with the Stormfather, Dalinar uses the Shardblade to cut open the trapdoor and it does not scream in his head. It is not till after he said the oaths and bonded the Stormfather that he heard the screams in his head. so there is still hope. I know Dustbringers is the consensus for Adolin, But what about Stonewardens? They are all about war right? Thoughts?
Trickonometry Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Jerich established with Brandon today that Skybreakers are NOT chill with what Adolin did "because it was illegal," but other orders would applaud - when I piped in and asked, "Like Dustbringers?" He had a knowing smile. Plus, if you look at the Brave/Obedient primary essence and the Love/Healing secondary essence of the Dustbringers/Releasers, I think those match very well with the who Adolin has been so far.
Paradox he/him Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) Jerich established with Brandon today that Skybreakers are NOT chill with what Adolin did "because it was illegal," but other orders would applaud - when I piped in and asked, "Like Dustbringers?" He had a knowing smile. Plus, if you look at the Brave/Obedient primary essence and the Love/Healing secondary essence of the Dustbringers/Releasers, I think those match very well with the who Adolin has been so far. The only problem i have with this is that Adolin was acting niether Brave nor obedient and was displaying the exact opposite of Love/Healing. Also known as Rage/Murder. Blood for the blood god! . Edited March 9, 2014 by Paradox 1
Moogle Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Plus, if you look at the Brave/Obedient primary essence and the Love/Healing secondary essence of the Dustbringers/Releasers Where does this come from? The book says that the Orders modeled themselves after the personalities of the Herald with their powers. I don't recall anything about attributes of other Heralds being involved.
Adolin_Dustbringer Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 The only problem i have with this is that Adolin was acting niether Brave nor obedient and was displaying the exact opposite of Love/Healing. Also known as Rage/Murder. Blood for the blood god! . I think that some Radiants follow their associated attributes more closely than others. I mean, one of the attributes for Lightweavers is Honest. Doesn't really sound too much like Shallan. And Dalinar isn't exactly the most Pious person. If you go just by the attributes, no KR Order would like what Adolin did, but according to WoB some would. 1
FollowYourMuse she/her Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 I know Dustbringers is the consensus for Adolin, But what about Stonewardens? They are all about war right? Thoughts? I second the Stonewards, is a good possibility, from what we know of them they were the Radiants that kept the arts of war, and Adolin fits that well. I posted here on this. Stonesinew, Herald of War: they thought it a point of virtue to exemplify resolve, strength, and dependability. Alas, they took less care for imprudent practice of their stubbornness, even in the face of proven error.—From Words of Radiance, chapter 13, page 1”
Trickonometry Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Where does this come from? The book says that the Orders modeled themselves after the personalities of the Herald with their powers. I don't recall anything about attributes of other Heralds being involved. This comes from observation and analyses, not verifiable proof; we are talking theories, afterall. (: I have a thread discussing exactly this sort of stuff (Personalities of the Knights Radiant Orders).
Releaser Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) I know that the Stonewardens are all about war, that was why I thought Adolin might become one. But with all the talk of Dueling for Adolin i wonder if there is an assassin aspect to the KR. They really beat us over the head with how amazing Adolin is at Dueling. Combine that with the possibility of challenging Odium with a champion. So I wonder if there is a 1 v 1 specialist among the orders of the KR. Similar to how they have healers (edgedancers / truthwatchers.), leaders (bondsmiths), police (skybreakers), spys (lightweavers), bus drivers (elsecallers) Edited March 9, 2014 by Releaser 1
Releaser Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Sorry about the double post here, but I just ran across something interesting. on p. 587 "Adolin summond his Blade, then dismissed it, then summoned it again. A Nervous habit. The wite fog apeared - manifesting as little vines sprouting in the air - before snapping into the form of a Shardblade" The "manifesting as vines" sounds an awful lot like Lifts spren Wyndle. Perhaps Adolin's shardblade used to be of the Edgedancer order. Doesn't Kaladin say that his blade forms of the silvery mist, which is Syl's main form. 4
veriviette Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) Damnit! I really need to reread the book to pick up on interesting bits like that. Doesn't everyone's Shardblade seem to come from mist though? Although that very particular wording is still very interesting. Or maybe it's just that the former holder of Adolin's Shardblade was an Edgedancer? Edited March 9, 2014 by veriviette 2
shinintendo Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Probably a silly thought, but anyone else reminded of C.P.R when Adolin summon and dismiss his spren again and again? 1
Gamma Fiend he/him Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 I actually think Adolin will revive his Spren and become an Edgedancer.Releaser's mention of Vines up above, and I looked up Edgedancers on the Coppermind: They were know as the most articulate and refined of the Radiants.They were considered elegant things of beauty. But also would ignore things of great import in favor of smaller things, as some would see it And when Dalinar's having a vision, doesn't one of the Radiants plate remind him of Adolin's? And aren't they an Edgedancer?And then from the WoR Epigraph:“When Simol was informed of the arrival of the Edgedancers, a concealed consternation and terror, as is common in such cases, fell upon him; although they were not the most demanding of orders, their graceful, limber movements hid a deadliness that was, by this time, quite renowned; also, they were the most articulate and refined of the Radiants. —From Words of Radiance, chapter 20, page 12”Adolin seems like a type of person who moves with a limber grace, hiding the deadliness of beauty of motion like Duelist. I'm not exactly sure how the Second Ideal of the Edgedancer's will work with him yet, though."I will remember those who have been forgotten"It cooouuld be a stretch that he could relate that idea to when him, his father, and their entire army got left behind by Sadeas. But I don't think that would quite work.
Aleksiel Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Second Ideal of the Edgedancer's will work with him yet, though. "I will remember those who have been forgotten" It cooouuld be a stretch that he could relate that idea to when him, his father, and their entire army got left behind by Sadeas. But I don't think that would quite work. Unless the exact wording is not what matters, but the meaning. Well, Adolin is so refined he was wearing cologne in prison after all, he'd fit right in the Edgedancers. 1
Lugonn Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 You can fit that oath perfectly with the revival of his shardblade spren. 3
Elena she/her Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 You can fit that oath perfectly with the revival of his shardblade spren. This is my new favorite idea. As for the topic, IMO Adolin could or could not become a Radiant, it goes both ways. The only reason why he maybe won't is a purely plot-related one - his father, cousin, brother and maybe even other cousin are all Radiants already, and we, story wise, don't need him to be one too. BUT I like Adolin a lot and could see him in the role just fine (plus more bromance with Kaladin, please!). If he doesn't become one, it definitely won't be because of his killing Sadeas. There's nothing unforgivable about that. Morally wrong, maybe, depending on how one sees it, but nothing that will be an obstacle to him becoming a KR.
Aleksiel Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 You can fit that oath perfectly with the revival of his shardblade spren. Good point, I agree. But it won't be enough as far as I understand this: Me: Is it possible then to reawaken a shard blade if that blade is wielded by someone who speaks the oaths of a Knights Radiant? Brandon: (Thinking)...Yes, but it would be extremely difficult. The spren in a shardblade are not trapped in a state of mid-transformation like the Elantrians. They are stuck in an agony cycle after having a significant portion of their consciousnesses ripped out of them. The Nahel bond is what allows Spren to think on material plane and that has been torn away. It would be like having a data jack installed and then having someone come up to your head and rip it out of your head. Me: So you would basically have to replace the part that was lost to wake them up? Brandon: Exactly. From here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6583-adolin-shardblades-skybreakers-wob-seattle-new-info-wor-spoilers-elantris-spoliers/
Xavien Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Well, Adolin is so refined he was wearing cologne in prison after all, he'd fit right in the Edgedancers. Adolin is also big on fashion, to the point where he recognizes what others are wearing and reads fashion magazines.
kari-no-sugata Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 That Adolin is so good at duelling is a strong indication that he at least has a strong affiinity for Stormlight, since it "perfects" etc. I suspect that if Adolin survives long enough he'll become a Radiant but he's not close to being one yet. I don't see his final act in the book hurting his chances.
Xavien Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Where does this come from? The book says that the Orders modeled themselves after the personalities of the Herald with their powers. I don't recall anything about attributes of other Heralds being involved. I think this comes from looking at the chart, the secondary divine attribute of each order is related to the primary divine attribute of the next order. Some of them are stretches (Giving->Creative, Resourceful->Pious) but others are closely related (Guiding->Protecting, Confident->Brave, Honest->Wise, Obedient->Loving, etc) It could also very easily be reading too much into it.
Gloom he/him Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Well, I think that Adolin was within his rights to kill Sadeas. Here's why. Adolin challenged Sadeas to mortal combat and was given the right to pursue that challenge by his lawful king. Granted, Sadeas wiggled his way out of the challenge to a point by forcing a delay of one year, but the challenge was accepted, Sadeas knew that Adolin wanted him dead. Adolin had good reason to kill Sadeas, since Sadeas was intent on undermining everything his father was working towards. It could be argued that Sadeas was a threat to humanity since he was trying to undermine one of the few people in the world that were actually trying to prevent humanities destruction. Sadeas has proven that he will go to any length to win, in this we can assume that Sadeas would have had Adolin assassinated before the year was out so ultimately, Adolin acted in self defense. I don't think Adolins actions at the end of Words of Radiance have any negative bearing on his potential chances of becoming a Radiant, in fact, I believe that his actions may improve his chances substantially. Up until this point, nothing in Adolins life had the potential to break him. Now, he has done something that could haunt him for the rest of his life. He has NOT spoken the first ideal, so he is NOT subject to the same restrictions that those who have done so are required to follow.
Trickonometry Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 The only problem i have with this is that Adolin was acting niether Brave nor obedient and was displaying the exact opposite of Love/Healing. Also known as Rage/Murder. Blood for the blood god! . Others well pointed out the Shallan conflict with Truth, but I don't actually think that either Brave/Obedient OR Love/Healing is necessarily out of line for Adolin's murder of Sadeas. On the Obedient and Love portion, the murder is definitely related to the damage Sadeas has done to Dalinar, who Adolin both loves and obeys. Even more, Adolin was told to kill Sadeas - granted, it was supposed to be in a duel, but you can't argue that the overall goal was achieved. Also, Adolin was likely aware of the illegality of what he did, so he the decision was made with knowledge that he may suffer greatly for his decision - there are certainly those that would call that bravery. Now, I can't claim the action healed Sadeas, but I think that it could be seen as an attempt to heal the divided Alethkar. Now, obviously, I could be wrong about all of this. I simply see a compelling argument to be made for Adolin to become a Dustbringer/Releaser, if indeed he becomes a KR.
Releaser Posted March 9, 2014 Posted March 9, 2014 Adolin was told to kill Sadeas - granted, it was supposed to be in a duel, I still see it as a Duel. It wasn't like a backstabbing, or Adolin ordering his soldiers to slit some throats. It was a 1 v 1 of a brutal nature. yea, it wasnt as refined as a Shard duel, but it was still a fair 1 v 1. I'm more interested in the "Adolin stood for a moment, staring Sadeas in the eyes, and then something finally snapped." line from the start of the fight. This was what made me originally think of Skybreakers, and their extra ability. But we have WoB that is not the case. I like the use of the word Snap, just like in Mistborn and all Cosmere books, you need to be broken to make room for the Investure.
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