Hsien99 Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 IMO the dynamic between the three are very similar to the dynamic we see in several Arthurian stories. Adolin since book one is regarded as a pillar of virtue he is handsome, honest, truthful, lawful, compassionate etc. Shallan is still very young and naive and has tons of emotional problems and not IMO ready emotional for marriage. Guinevere never believed she was truly good enough for Arthur same with Shallan. Shallan even stated how Adolin deserves someone better than her that she would create a perfect persona to be a perfect wife worthy of him. Arthur’s problem was he was so busy being a good king and knight that he was never there for Guinevere as just her husband and partner that he couldn’t provide the emotional and physical connections that she needed. Lancelot was a better knight than Arthur of almost supernatural skill he was very loyal to Arthur who was his friend and king. He also knew of course Guinevere who he also loved and respected and they were at first glance very attracted to each other. Overtime the relationship starts taking a burden with Lancelot keeping his distance and trying to rationalize and deny thinking it’s not pure and a betrayal. IMO that screams Kaladin with him sequestering himself from his home up in the sky alone trying to kept his thoughts preoccupied so not to think about it not wanting to express his feelings because he is trying to be respectful and likes both of them. Now again IMO, I don’t think either one of them are ready for a serious relationship they both have lots of work to do before that happens. I don’t think BS would put so much foreshadowing into something between them and just throw it all away with a wedding that was glossed over is not a satisfying conclusion to the dynamic this trio shares. Now whether they eventually get together I don’t know but Shallan is not a whole person mentally she is in a bad place and right now and instead of confronting the problem she is running from it like always and using Adolin as a crutch because he feels safe. I don’t think having two main characters getting together is cliché or trope if presented with the right story Journey before Destination etc. Somone on another post basically said putting two main characters in a romantic relationship just becuase they are main characters is bad, but trying to bend the story around and take a left turn to keep them apart when the author have been doing lots of foreshadowing etc is worse. It’s basically saying everything you read was worthless inconsequential when dealing with their character development. I stress the fact though that both Shallan and Kaladin are broken and as they swear their oaths and speak their truths start healing and start becoming whole. I would rather Kaladin and Shallan be truly happy as a character than be forced into a relationship against their characterization, but I feel Kaladin would be better long term Adolin helps stabilize now but she needs personal growth to improve. It probably will not happen till the time skip 15 years when they are both so much older Kaladin 38ish and Shallan 34ish and more mature and experienced wise but eventually I think they will get together. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 I'm not that familiar with the Arthurian tales, but from what you're describing, it sounds more like a parallel to Gavilar - Navani - Dalinar to me. Also, there is one point that is very important to a relationship where the parallel does not hold up in any way. You say Arthur was so busy being a good king he never had time for Guinevere as a person. That is a trap I do not believe Adolin will ever fall into. In fact I would argue Adolin would probably be so focused on seeing and helping the people that it would hinder him if he had to be a king. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissy Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) I mean, he could help the people much more if he was king. Adolin doesn't really care about helping the people. He gave up all responsibilities that could've led him onto such a path in Oathbringer. What he really wants is a simple life, free of responsibility. Edited February 1, 2018 by Vissy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 I don't Brandon would do that, because that's what's also said about Wheel of Time and its main characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Sandra said: I don't Brandon would do that, because that's what's also said about Wheel of Time and its main characters. To be fair, I don't think Brandon would avoid something because it happened in Wheel of Time or another fantasy story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsien99 Posted February 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 We don’t always get what we want am not saying Adolin will necessarily become a king but no one will stay the same throughout the series. Adolin will eventually have to step it doesn’t really matter what he wants the postion he is in and his family will push him to lead. Arthur never wanted to be king and have power he did it because he realized he had the power to improve peoples lives in his country. Am saying I see two choices with him either he will eventually have to accept responsibility and become a general of the army a coalition made up of other nations. He becomes king or high king etc. This new responsibility puts his life with Shallan on the back burner and takes a toll on their relationship. A life without responsibility is maybe what he wants but he will not get it. I think the relationship between all three can have parallels between Arthur, Guinevere and Lancelot but it also mirrors Gavilar, Navani and Dalinar a combination of the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormingTexan Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 3 hours ago, Sandra said: I don't Brandon would do that, because that's what's also said about Wheel of Time and its main characters. Except Rand was the playa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humming Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 I think there's a WoB saying that the triangle mirrors something that has happened in the past. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsterMetroid Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 14 minutes ago, Humming said: I think there's a WoB saying that the triangle mirrors something that has happened in the past. Yup there is, Quote Questioner Is Adolin and Shallan going to get together, or will Kaladin and Shallan? Brandon Sanderson That is quite the question. I will eventually answer that, but you are getting Read-and-Find-Outed. It is intentionally a bit of a mimicry of something else that happened in the past. source 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humming Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 44 minutes ago, MonsterMetroid said: Yup there is, That is it! It's interesting how it did not mimicked anything from the past in OB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starla Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 7 hours ago, Sandra said: I don't Brandon would do that, because that's what's also said about Wheel of Time and its main characters. Can you remind me which Wheel of Time relationship is similar to the Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot scenario? I don't recall anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 I think he means it kind of mimicked Dalinar-Gavilar-Navani. For WoT, not specifically Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot, but Arthur/Morgaine/Nymue/Guinevere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraidedRose Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Starla said: Can you remind me which Wheel of Time relationship is similar to the Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot scenario? I don't recall anything like that. I don’t think there actually is meant to be a direct parallel to this relationship in WoT, rather there are countless references to Arthurian legend and characters with similar names. Arthur is similar to Al’Thor, Guinevere to Egwene Al’Vere, and Lancelot is similar to Lan, etc. But the story plays out very differently on the whole with similar elements throughout. I think this is to fit with the theme of time being circular and the idea of the past not being remembered accurately as it becomes myth, legend, etc. To the OP, I’m not sure whether this trio is meant to be a parallel, I don’t know the source material well enough. But there are definitely plenty of readers who have doubts that the rushed wedding we got in OB was really the end of this plot line. There certainly was a lot of foreshadowing for Kaladin that would seem to be dropped if it was. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 15 hours ago, Vissy said: I mean, he could help the people much more if he was king. Adolin doesn't really care about helping the people. He gave up all responsibilities that could've led him onto such a path in Oathbringer. What he really wants is a simple life, free of responsibility. I have a very different reading of Adolin... He gave up being king because it was just too much for him: unlike Elhokar, he was humble enough to admit he wouldn't be able to do the job justice. I honestly have a hard time comprehending why Adolin is giving such a hard time for refusing a position he does not feel competent enough to uphold. When Elhokar abdicated, everyone rooted for him for finally making the right decision, but when Adolin does the same, all of a sudden he is a egocentric, selfish and running away from all responsibilities. I also happen to agree, were he king, Adolin would really struggle into focusing within the larger picture as he'd spend too much time caring about the little ones. In the same way, he prefers to sit with his men than up on the stage with the "important people". He would probably not be a good king given the Desolation: I doubt he'd be able to make the harsh decisions Jasnah will surely have to jungle with. Being king is not just about helping people, it is sometimes about sending them to their death. I think stating Adolin doesn't really care about helping the people is, well, I honestly don't know how one can come up with this conclusion after reading those books. As for the parallel, the main topic, I don't really buy it. Adolin is not the "Chosen King", nor is he "the special one". Within Arthurian legends, Arthur is kind of the one which removes the sword from the stone, he is the character on a hero's journey and Lancelot is his most loyal knight. Given the narrative of SA, Kaladin is actually the "chosen/special one" while Adolin is the loyal knight in shinning armor, serving those he sees as greater than him. He might be Highprince, but the Adolin I read completely defers himself to the Radiants. 8 hours ago, Hsien99 said: A life without responsibility is maybe what he wants but he will not get it. Adolin says this, but he never actually does it: he always takes the lead when circumstances need him to. He does refuse to be king: it was too much for him. I mean, just because he is supposedly the next in line does not mean he is the right choice. Adolin is too friendly with people, too caring to be king. It would isolate him in ways which would make him miserable and a lesser person. I happen to think Jasnah is much, much, much better choice than Adolin will ever be because she has the ability to make the harsh decisions independently of how she feels about them and yet she has enough empathy not to turn into Taravangian. Also, just because your family pushes you one way does not mean you have to obey. I happen to think Adolin's story arc would get really interesting if it were focusing on him becoming his own man outside of his family's expectations. He never got to be himself: he always were Dalinar's son. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainier Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 21 hours ago, BraidedRose said: Arthur is similar to Al’Thor Funny, I never thought that, mainly because of Artur Hawkwing who was much, much, more obviously inspired by Arthurian legend.. Unrelated WoT spoilers Spoiler And if I recall, the reason Rand had three wives is because James Rigney aka Robert Jordan had two girlfriends at the same time in college. He figured if little ol' him could have two women at the same time, the Dragon Reborn should have at least three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraidedRose Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 Quote 11 minutes ago, Rainier said: Funny, I never thought that, mainly because of Artur Hawkwing who was much, much, more obviously inspired by Arthurian legend.. Unrelated WoT spoilers Reveal hidden contents And if I recall, the reason Rand had three wives is because James Rigney aka Robert Jordan had two girlfriends at the same time in college. He figured if little ol' him could have two women at the same time, the Dragon Reborn should have at least three. I always took it as deliberate that there was more than one allusion to Arthur, because of course you are right that Artur Halkwing is also a reference. Again, fitting with the theme that myths might be combinations and variations on real events. That’s such a funny story about Robert Jordan, I’m surprised I never heard that before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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