RShara Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Isilel said: I agree with everything you have said re: stormlight. Honestly, I don't even see how the idea that it could belong to any other Shard than Honor (with maaaayyybe some hint of Cultivation. Or not) can be anything but illogical and a contradiction of the text. Sorry, proponents. OTOH, I disagree with these statements: So, are we supposed to think it a pure coincidence that an early batch of Returned, a group of 5, none of whom have seemingly achieved the goal of their Return despite living for centuries, has been drawn to Roshar and inspired by their experiences there to invent and create various things that could potentially significantly affect the latest conflict with Odium? Is it completely by chance, that one of them and their greatest and most dangerous creation are on Roshar _now_? That the mechanics of making a toned down-version of an Awakened blade, possibly refined by another of the 5 Scholars, has been already shared with the honorspren? Particularly, given that the way the Return operates is that Endowment shows a selected soul a possible future catastrophe that they might be able to prevent, and while they forget the main reason for their Return until shortly before they can act on it, it subtly affects their Returned lives? IMHO, all of the above points at something very different - namely, that Endowment foresaw the danger several centuries earlier and has taken steps to involve herself carefully and subtly, but doesn't feel like sharing her intentions with Hoid. Likely for a good reason. It's certainly a possibility. I hadn't thought of it that way. I have no objections to this idea other than the Cosmer significance I mention below. Quote How is it even possible anymore? Revelations about the origin of humans and the reasons for the Recreance have put existence of other worlds and mass worldhopping front and center of Stormlight Archive. This knowledge is now widespread on Roshar - it is no longer a carefully guarded secret of privileged few like on the other Cosmere worlds. And Warbreaker was specifically written to provide background for 2 SA characters - presumably, characters that are going to be very important in some ways and whose otherworldly abilities are going to be crucial. There is a WoB that Vasher hasn't figured out how to Awaken with stormlight _yet_ - which is a pretty strong hint that he is going to, during the series. Promised Herald flashbacks in the second pentology will certainly feature Braize. So, yea, I imagine that other worlds of Roshar system and Nalthis, or at least some Nalthians with Awakening, are going to feature relatively prominently. The rest, not so much. Even so, I have to wonder _why_ people like Felt from Scadrial (and his wife?) waste years serving first in Dalinar's bodyguard (during his visit to the Nightwatcher) and then among his chasm-jumping scouts (in WoR, IIRC). Did Hoid's correspondence with Sazed take place years before Gavilar's death, perhaps, and prompted Harmony to send some spies to Roshar? Right but other than Vasher, everything is contained within the Greater Roshar system. You don't need to read other books to figure out and understand what's going on in Stormlight Archive. So yeah, SA has more cosmere in it, but other planets(and their Shards) outside the Roshar system won't play a significant role. Vasher's kind of a cheating exception, since Warbreaker and Nightbood (the book) are meant to be his prequel stories. Edited January 21, 2018 by RShara 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isilel Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 45 minutes ago, RShara said: Right but other than Vasher, everything is contained within the Greater Roshar system. Well, Vasher is a splinter of Endowment and Nightblood is a piece of her investiture. Both of them have also been integral parts of SA from the early stages of it's development and, apparently, are important enough to merit an origin novel. Vivenna has joined them in OB and promptly spread secrets of Awakening among the honorspren. So, yea, other than Vasher, Vivenna, Nightblood and Awakening technics, all of which come from Nalthis and ultimately stem from Endowment . Oh, and it is very likely that the 5 Scholars were intended for that purpose from the beginning, that it was the actual reason for their Return, their research interests, etc. The Ghostbloods might also serve some other Shard too, BTW. 45 minutes ago, RShara said: You don't need to read other books to figure out and understand what's going on in Stormlight Archive. So yeah, SA has more cosmere in it, but other planets(and their Shards) outside the Roshar system won't play a significant role. True, but that's because OB has already explained some of the cosmere basics, with more to come as needed. Which is far beyond Easter eggs and sly winks to the few elect, who are in on the secret, like in the previous novels. I don't expect direct interference from the other Shards during the series, and what we'll see from Endowment and possibly the Ghostbloods' master is going to be strictly through intermediaries, but it wouldn't surprise me if a Shard from outside Roshar manages to pick some of the pieces in the end. After all, Odium by itself probably doesn't have the chops to become the ultimate big bad of the cosmere in the planned space age period, not to mention that we'll be a bit tired of him after 10 volumes of SA... yet (some of) it's power could nicely round out the ultimate antagonists's toolkit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) Just wanted to put these here because I think they're relevant. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/61/#e1282 Quote Questioner I heard a rumor that the universes of all your books are interconnected? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Most of my books, not all of them. If a book mentions Earth, it is not connected to what I call the cosmere, I kind of made this decision early on. So for those of you who don't know, my epic fantasies are indeed all connected. There are characters who cross over between them. I've been planning this for twenty years so I've got this intricate thing going on. There will eventually be big crossover books but for right now I don't want people to feel like they have to read everything in order to understand what's going on, and so for right now each of the books are only cameos. But you will be able to notice characters crossing between and there will be big crossover books eventually. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/2/#e210 Quote Questioner As the Cosmere gets a lot bigger, what is your biggest worry going forward writing the books? Brandon Sanderson Going forward, my biggest worry is making sure that I do things like get The Stormlight Archivedone as a solid, complete whole, rather than letting it become... like, too distracted about the Cosmere. Like, I'm not worried about that for Mistborn, but I'm worried about that for Stormlight. Stormlight needs to be a self-contained whole, it needs to be a self-contained epic, and I have to be really careful not to-- in the later books in particular-- let it turn into the Avengers, something like that. So that's my biggest worry right now, is that I will let too much of that seep in. I'm being very careful about it. Stormlight is meant to be self-contained. It is not the point that the major Cosmere crossover begins. Vasher and Nightblood are an exception to the rule, as they originated in Stormlight, and Warbreaker was written as a prequel to explore those characters. Not Endowment. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/147/#e2768 Quote BlackYeti In Words of Radiance, we have Vasher showing up... One of his aliases on Nalthis is Kalad, which is very similar to the name of one of the Heralds on Roshar. So I was wondering how far back this connection between him and Roshar goes. Brandon Sanderson It goes pretty far back, in fact when I wrote Way of Kings, the 2002 version; he was a main character and was Kaladin's swordmaster. I wrote Warbreaker to jump back and write out his backstory, Vasher's. So to me Warbreakeractually came after Way of Kings. But the connection goes back pretty far, further than you would first guess. BlackYeti Did he actually come from Nalthis and not Roshar? Brandon Sanderson I'm not going to actually answer that one-- Well I can answer that: yes he does come from Nalthis. It's pretty obvious that the way that the Breath's working, the reason he moved is because it's easier to get Stormlight than Breaths, and Stormlight can fuel being a Returned like him. And so yes, he was born on Nalthis. Becoming Returned without being born on Nalthis would be really hard. Edited January 21, 2018 by Calderis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willshaping Crasher Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 I'm not sure I can accept Stormlight being connected to endowment. While they may both be vaporous, they act in completely opposite ways. Using Breaths, the idea is to exhale the breath. Then give a command Using Stormlight, the idea is to inhale and possibly hold your breath so that it can have an effect. Exhaling wastes the stormlight. In addition, whether it is "friendly" or not, I think using investiture from endowment to power surges would be a corruption of the original investiture. It should then cause surgebinders to glow red. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isilel Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 11 hours ago, Calderis said: Stormlight is meant to be self-contained. It is not the point that the major Cosmere crossover begins. Well, I never claimed that there is going to be a major crossover. However, other worlds and other "gods" are explicitely mentioned in OB. Our heroes have already run into people from the other worlds in Shadesmar and will run into more of them as the numbers of Elsecallers and Willshapers grow and they explore the Cognitive realm. Sapient spren living there already know about the other worlds and serve as guides to those travellers as well as trade with them and will eventually share information they have with the new Radiants visiting them. Hoid has been more active in the narrative than ever before and relatively open with various characters. And extra-Rosharan origin of humans has just been rediscovered and this information was widely disseminated. All of this is in the text of the novel itself, which, IMHO, trumps all and any WoBs or at least puts them into context. Existence of the other inhabited worlds is about to become fairly widely known on Roshar, which is a very different situation from the previous cosmere novels and series. 11 hours ago, Calderis said: Vasher and Nightblood are an exception to the rule, as they originated in Stormlight, and Warbreaker was written as a prequel to explore those characters. Not Endowment. However, you can't pretend that Sanderson gave Vasher an otherworldy origin, different magic and close connection to another Shard by accident. He had a purpose in writing _this_ background for him instead of something else. Vivenna sharing information on how to create her version of an Awakened sword with the honorspren is unlikely to remain just a a bit of color, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 24, 2018 Report Share Posted January 24, 2018 @Isilel To make Stormlight as Endowment's Investiture we need to overcome three problems (at least the ones that come to my mind): - The Self Contained status of the Cosmere's novel (that it's what you are mostly arguing and honestly I didn't even put in the list as I apply mostly Worldbuilding logic rather than plot logic) - The fact nobody, mortal/entity/gods refer to something external/foreign about the Stormlight, neither the one who provide it to the whole planet (Rider of the Storm/Stormfather) - The WoB (I provided it in the previous page) who implies the Stormlight as Honor/Cultivation/Honor&Cultivation 's Investiture. By the way, a lot of time ago, I proposed the Stormlight as pre-shattering Investiture left by Adonalsium to fuel Roshar's ecosystem and that WoB killed my own theory. Of course this was before the "Shards inherited all the Investiture in the whole Cosmere" recent WoB. Anyway, also if Leyrann dediced that the WoB doesn't disprove his theory...it actually does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isilel Posted January 24, 2018 Report Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) @Yata: You are adressing your arguments to somebody else. To quote myself from the first post on this page: " I agree with everything you have said re: stormlight. Honestly, I don't even see how the idea that it could belong to any other Shard than Honor (with maaaayyybe some hint of Cultivation. Or not) can be anything but illogical and a contradiction of the text " My theory is that Endowment is subtly involved in the current events on Roshar via her splinter, Vasher and his and Shoshara's creation, Nightblood. That, in fact, he and the other 4 scholars may have Returned in the first place specifically because she foresaw trouble from Odium and needed to prepare some tools for her intervention. That's the reason why all the 5 scholars have seemingly failed to achieve the goal of their Return despite living for centuries. In the end, only Vasher will manage to do so. Edited January 24, 2018 by Isilel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 24, 2018 Report Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) @Isilel sorry, I recovered all the reply fast while I was going to work and it was quite early morning....My mind wasn't too focused. PS: As you pointed to the Stormlight's composition in the regard of the local shards...I see more of Cultivation than Honor in it. But it's really debatable Edited January 24, 2018 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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