thejopen27 he/him Posted January 3, 2018 Posted January 3, 2018 Two truths and the first ideal to get a sword in her youth. She then locks the sword away and forgets, regresses. I think the truth she swore in WoR just reawoke her sword and she now is back to the third ideal.
Govir Posted January 3, 2018 Posted January 3, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kaleid said: Is there anything inworld that suggests that all the radiant orders get their blades and plates at the same ideal? Not that I know of, and in fact we have a WoB that they *don't* get their blades and plates at the same ideals (i.e. it was order dependent). Unfortunately, I have failed to find the WoB... EDIT: This may be the one I was thinking of: WoB Quote Kythis Is there a specific number of the ideals that they have to do before they can get the shardblade? Brandon Sanderson It depends on the order. Edited January 3, 2018 by Govir Found WoB Source 1
Kaleid Posted January 3, 2018 Posted January 3, 2018 Well then, maybe Shallan won't get hers until. She swears the fifth.
Yata he/him Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 9 hours ago, Kaleid said: Is there anything inworld that suggests that all the radiant orders get their blades and plates at the same ideal? Only that all the Orders with access to Blades we see for now swearing the Third Ideal, got access to the Blade. But we only saw half of the orders doing it
Bort he/him Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 22 hours ago, Yata said: If you deny the proofs we have, there is no base for discussions. Sure you could believe everything and everyone lie. But I took Pattern's words as trustful. The orders have shared ground, the Oaths were forced Upon the Surgebinders. The Truths have a differents formulations but they fully works as Oaths. You could propose another explaination but It has at least to fit better the evidences than the actual one 13 hours ago, Fulminato said: phrasing is important. we know a lightwaver progression is trough selfawareness, speaking the truth of himself. but i don't find even the hint of the number of that truth, can be four, but can be more or less based the life of the lightweaver, i suppose. “Is it true?” Shallan asked, tilting her head all the way back, looking up the side of the enormous tower toward the blue sky high above. “Am I one of them?” “Mmm . . .” Pattern said from her skirt. “Almost you are. Still a few Words to say.” “What kind of words? An oath?” “Lightweavers make no oaths beyond the first,” Pattern said. “You must speak truths.” WoR Chapter 87 "the riddens" Teft tells us that there are 5 oaths for each order (which we know is wrong), but he doesn't know any of them beyond the first, and then proceeds to explain to Kaladin that he doesn't know much, all of what he does know is rumour, and so on. And as @Fulminato points out, nowhere does Pattern mention a number of truths. From his exact words ("Still a few Words to say"), we could even take it as Shallan is now a level 5 Lightweaver, since she said 'a few Words'. Now, just to be clear, I don't believe this is the case, I'm just pointing out how ambiguous this is. Finally, it's not about believing everyone is lying. It is about remembering that all of these characters don't know the truth for certain. All of the information they come by is from rumour, or second hand sources. Even Teft, who grew up as part of a cult that all but worshipped the Radiants, only knows tiny fragments. 1
Kaleid Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 Unreliable narrator principles apply. We do not have the perspective of an omniscient narrator. 3
digitalbusker he/him Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 I just came across this in my reread. It's when Adolin brings up the possibility of teaching Shallan how to use her Shardblade, in Chapter 15, "Brightness Radiant". Quote "What about Plate? Do you have that hidden somewhere too?” “Not that I know of,” she said. Her heart was beating quickly, her skin growing cold, her muscles tense. She fought against the sensation. “I don’t know where Plate comes from.” She is totally suppressing knowledge of Shardplate right there. 7
Yata he/him Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 Is that sequence before the Radiants's birth? Because if It is...I would not read something weird in that, Shallan is always nervous about her Blade and in the context they talked about training with the Blade. By the way, I see no reason for her to suppress the Plate related stuffs. Her whole problem is with the Blade and her mother's murdering. But I will check again the chapter 1
digitalbusker he/him Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 @Yata yes that's before the birth of the Brightness Radiant persona. As for why she would suppress plate when the blade is already known, it could be a "this far, no farther" thing, just stubbornly holding back because she can, when so many other secrets have been taken from her. Or we could find out that young Shallan in plate stepped on one of Balat's pet minks and caused him to relapse. 3
Govir Posted January 8, 2018 Posted January 8, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 11:03 PM, digitalbusker said: I just came across this in my reread. It's when Adolin brings up the possibility of teaching Shallan how to use her Shardblade, in Chapter 15, "Brightness Radiant". Quote "What about Plate? Do you have that hidden somewhere too?” “Not that I know of,” she said. Her heart was beating quickly, her skin growing cold, her muscles tense. She fought against the sensation. “I don’t know where Plate comes from.” She is totally suppressing knowledge of Shardplate right there. The issue with this passage is that shortly before it Shallan starts thinking about how she killed her parents. Adolin is oblivious to this, and grabs Shallan's shoulders making her start. Then we have the passage you quoted. Then a bit later it says Quote She wanted to hide. But she couldn't. This truth refused to budge from her mind. So I don't think the heart beating quickly has to do with surpressing Shardplate. It just has to do with remembering killing her parents and not being able to shove it away.
Cosmé he/him Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) On 1/2/2018 at 11:58 AM, TheDoomsday said: Skybreakers being able to use Surges before bonding a spren. Since Kaladin has to be around for his squires to have power, it would make sense that a bonded radiant’s squires have powers that are associated with a nearby radiant’s Spren. So, when a bridgeman squire uses Windrunning, they are using surges through a very weak bond with Syl (with Kaladin in between). Kaladin was presumedly never a squire, since he was never near a Windrunner before swearing ideals? If Skybreaker powers are the same, then they will need a Skybreaker nearby to use powers. I don’t recall well enough to know whether a Skybreaker was always present. The mechanism seems to be that spren hold the power of surge bonding. Syl can stick people to things (adhesion) of her own will for example. But to use the really impressive powers, you need a bond, and it would make sense that different circumstances determine the strength of that bond. Kaladin, while not following his oaths (WoR) has a very weak bond. Perhaps Shallan, while not following her truths, also had a weak bond? Ability to use plate and blade may be a function of bond strength, which is determined by vows sworn, attention to those vows, proximity of spren, relationship with spren, and nature of spren and how much it requires in terms of obedience (honorspren gonna be sticklers) Edited January 9, 2018 by Cosmé
Nuatoma Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 Sorry to reply to an old topic, but I just read the passage last night that @digitalbusker quoted and I came to the same conclusion and came looking in the forums to see if it had been discussed: On 1/4/2018 at 9:03 PM, digitalbusker said: "What about Plate? Do you have that hidden somewhere too?” “Not that I know of,” she said. Her heart was beating quickly, her skin growing cold, her muscles tense. She fought against the sensation. “I don’t know where Plate comes from.” The passage tells of her thinking of killing her parents, and then so worried that Adolin was going to break off the betrothal. But then when she learns Adolin just wants to train her with the Shardblade, it specifically says that Shallan calmed herself. So 'her heart was beating quickly, her skin growing cold, her muscles tense' is something new and I came to the conclusion that she was suppressing her Shardplate.
CrazyRioter she/her Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 It just reads like her fighting a panic attack to me.
Calderis he/him Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, CrazyRioter said: It just reads like her fighting a panic attack to me. Like she normally has when confronting anything she's suppressed... 1
Localconfusi0n Posted June 5, 2018 Posted June 5, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 10:03 PM, digitalbusker said: I just came across this in my reread. It's when Adolin brings up the possibility of teaching Shallan how to use her Shardblade, in Chapter 15, "Brightness Radiant". She is totally suppressing knowledge of Shardplate right there. Good catch. I'd be willing to bet your right atleast, as mentioned a few times, all the Orders we've seen so have followed the same progression I'm regards to getting their blades, but not all orders are the same in that. So Shallan is a good example of an Order we've seen progress but haven't seen how that progression works, and could be or first example of an Order that differs from the status quo so far. Honesty it would make sense if Lightweavers received Plate early on since their surges aren't particularly combat oriented, especially Lightweaving which they access first. Getting Plate would offset the strength differentials between Surges for weaker Orders while they gain "levels" and become more practiced with their Surges.
Nymeros Posted June 5, 2018 Posted June 5, 2018 1- I think she already has Plate just as she had her Blade for an entire book without revealing it. She's just repressing her progression. 2 - if she doesnt, she may not get it till her last oath. Whose to say?
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