Angsos Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 @TheDoomsday Also, just like Kelsier faked being happy to compensate, Lopen does too I believe. Kaladin accepted him in Bridge Four and gave him useful stuff to do. Do you really think all his previous masters treated a one-armed slave with respect? Not to mention I'd think it very painful to lose an arm and in a pre-prothetic society quite debilitating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Song she/her Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 I was sad to loose Eshoni, but I think this way is best. She would be more intereting as a flash back than in the current conflict. Her flash back will be an introduction to the Listeners pre-war and her perspective would be rich and interesting. But for book 4, Venli's guilt about her sister and being responsible for the Everstorm, while fighting Odium from the inside and learning her surges will make a much richer story than Eshoni. Brandon would also have to say that flash back characters can be dead, otherwise we would know that Jasnah, Lift and Renarin have to survive to the back half which would take heaps of tension out of the story (Not that I want them to die. I nearly threw OB across the room when I thought Renarin was going to be killed by Jasnah) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Portz he/him Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 On 1/2/2018 at 10:52 AM, Jace said: am i the only one who doesn´t like Venli? Yes On 1/2/2018 at 10:40 AM, maxal said: I was personally disappointed at how easily Szeth was accepted within the group of Radiant as if "being a Radiant" automatically made you "superior", "better", "trustworthy" and "it erases your past crimes". But wasn't it always clear to the intrigue-infested Alethi Warlords, that the Assassin in White just was a tool? An incredibly dangerous tool, but a tool which every Alethi court would prefer to make use of instead of just removing it. It never ocurred to me, that somebody in Alethar or even in Roshar might think of Szeth of having an own agenda. Quote Also, I never thought I would say this... but there are too many Radiant viewpoints within those books Every single character of importance or importance to come is... Radiant. First I think it was absolutely clear, that Roshar needs much more Radiants to stand up to the Desolation and Odiums goals. I for one am glad, that for now (book 3 of 10) there are still only a handful of Radiants and that I can relate to each one of them, instead of there being a mass of anonymous Radiants. Second, I think to counter this I-am-Radiant-You-are-Radiant-Everybody-is-Radiant-effect Brandon explicitly hinted the difficulty of each Radiancy level via Nales explanation to Szeth. There will be a strict hierarchy of Radiants, and not everybody will reach the upper levels. Perhaps even Kaladin will be stuck on his current level. Completely unrelated to the topic: I still think that Oathbringer is a fantastic book and by far the best of the series so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejopen27 he/him Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 (edited) I think Venli was more compelling because she was a true believer who had her expectations shattered by the fallibility, cruelty, and disinterest of her gods. Can Eshonai come back as a Fused? Wouldn't that be a great Venli ark if she was confronted by the Odium twisted soul of her sister? On 1/2/2018 at 10:40 AM, maxal said: Also, I never thought I would say this... but there are too many Radiant viewpoints within those books Every single character of importance or importance to come is... Radiant. It's almost like there's someone picking which characters we follow. Edited January 3, 2018 by thejopen27 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 2 hours ago, thejopen27 said: I think Venli was more compelling because she was a true believer who had her expectations shattered by the fallibility, cruelty, and disinterest of her gods. Can Eshonai come back as a Fused? Wouldn't that be a great Venli ark if she was confronted by the Odium twisted soul of her sister? Sorry, Eshonai is not coming back Also, no reason for Odium to Invest in her enough for her to become a Fused, since she fought against him (her true self did anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazenella he/him Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 2 words... Cognitive Shadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejopen27 he/him Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 hour ago, RShara said: Sorry, Eshonai is not coming back Also, no reason for Odium to Invest in her enough for her to become a Fused, since she fought against him (her true self did anyway). The fused don't seem to have the ability to resist Odium. They are controlled by Odium. I'm not saying it will happen, but I just think it would be a really interesting way for Venli to have to deal with her past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 But why would Odium turn her into a CS in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morsk he/him Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 I haven't seen these other places, where Brandon mentions not being allowed to bring back Eshonai. How likely is it that fandom killed her, by complaining about Jasnah and Szeth, and demanding more death? I wonder if we killed anyone else besides... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleid Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 You know I struggled to come to terms with her death at first as she was one of my (maybe even the) favourite character from the first two books But now I'm starting to think that maybe the story is better with her dead. More conflict in Venli; more of a contrast between her representing how things are versus Eshonai representing how things were in her flashbacks - a fitting exploration of the very different dynamics between THEN and NOW. Perhaps Venli's personality is more fitting for the future plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 34 minutes ago, Morsk said: I haven't seen these other places, where Brandon mentions not being allowed to bring back Eshonai. How likely is it that fandom killed her, by complaining about Jasnah and Szeth, and demanding more death? I wonder if we killed anyone else besides... They're not official. No one demanded more death. But people who die need to stay dead more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Blazenella said: 2 words... Cognitive Shadow Three words: Not enough Investiture. It requires a lot in order to remain in the Cognitive Realm for any length of time and there's zero indication that listeners innately possess enough to remain indefinitely, and evidence against it from the fact that Odium had to actively take steps to make the Fused possible. For an example from Mistborn: SH Spoiler Even a lerasium Mistborn like Elend wasn't Invested enough to stay around for more than a few minutes before being pulled Beyond, and he was about as heavily Invested as anyone on Scadrial could be short of the people who became Slivers as a result of holding Preservation's power. Now, remember that conversation that Odium has with one of the Fused, where he threatens to take away whatever is sustaining his existence if the latter doesn't fall into line? That tells us that 1) The Fused are not being directly controlled by Odium and have some degree of autonomy and 2) Odium has to actively do something to create the Fused. Both of these things effectively disqualify Eshonai from becoming one: She was already trying to resist Odium's influence so he's unlikely to have made any special effort on her part and he's got to be aware that if he did, it could backfire on him. Given that he's stated to be worried about getting attacked by Cultivation while he's distracted dealing with what Tanavast left behind, he's unlikely to want to Invest any more heavily than he absolutely has to, in order to keep his strength where it is. He basically has nothing to gain by making Eshonai a Fused. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 15 minutes ago, Weltall said: Three words: Not enough Investiture. It requires a lot in order to remain in the Cognitive Realm for any length of time and there's zero indication that listeners innately possess enough to remain indefinitely, and evidence against it from the fact that Odium had to actively take steps to make the Fused possible. For an example from Mistborn: SH Hide contents Even a lerasium Mistborn like Elend wasn't Invested enough to stay around for more than a few minutes before being pulled Beyond, and he was about as heavily Invested as anyone on Scadrial could be short of the people who became Slivers as a result of holding Preservation's power. Now, remember that conversation that Odium has with one of the Fused, where he threatens to take away whatever is sustaining his existence if the latter doesn't fall into line? That tells us that 1) The Fused are not being directly controlled by Odium and have some degree of autonomy and 2) Odium has to actively do something to create the Fused. Both of these things effectively disqualify Eshonai from becoming one: She was already trying to resist Odium's influence so he's unlikely to have made any special effort on her part and he's got to be aware that if he did, it could backfire on him. Given that he's stated to be worried about getting attacked by Cultivation while he's distracted dealing with what Tanavast left behind, he's unlikely to want to Invest any more heavily than he absolutely has to, in order to keep his strength where it is. He basically has nothing to gain by making Eshonai a Fused. So much this. You put it much better than I have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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