Bort he/him Posted December 27, 2017 Posted December 27, 2017 22 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said: And flashback Dalinar is actually Tonk Fah. Hard to spot, that one. Not a joke, but could Mraize be Tonk Fah? He has his fascination with small animals, and killing things.
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted December 27, 2017 Posted December 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Bort said: Not a joke, but could Mraize be Tonk Fah? He has his fascination with small animals, and killing things. Mraize is most likely Thaylen, and their behaviors doesn't match. I doubt their looks do either. Mraize doesn't have a small animal fascination either. He kills Sleepless cremlings and has an aviar, which is a bit different.
Kered he/him Posted December 27, 2017 Posted December 27, 2017 1 hour ago, StrikerEZ said: Well, Denth does have the Royal Locks. He's also a Returned. All Returned would have the Royal Locks. Also, since this more relevant to the topic itself, I knew Vasher was Zahel going into SA because someone spoiled it for me on here, so I didn't get to find out for myself (but I would've quickly realized with all the color metaphors and the voice in his head quote). As for Vivenna, I realized she was Azure when she gave her first color idiom ("like white on black") and temporarily freaked out and had to stop reading. I was kind of blown away by how different she is now, as compared to her in Warbreaker. After her first fight scene in OB I was like "Well, Vivenna is a boss now".
StormingTexan he/him Posted December 27, 2017 Posted December 27, 2017 23 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said: And flashback Dalinar is actually Tonk Fah. Hard to spot, that one. This made me laugh. Of course everyone knows Balat is actually Tonk Fah. I was kinda in the same boat. Read tWoK and WoR before Warbreaker and totally missed all the Vasher and Nightblood references. Right after I finished WoR I joined this site and saw a thread talking about Vasher and Nightblood and read Warbreaker right away. Wish I would have come here before WoR and read Warbreaker first would have made it a lot better but honestly I thought WoR was pretty amazing even missing out on this. OB though I almost think Warbreaker is necessary reading.
Wit Beyond Measure Posted December 27, 2017 Posted December 27, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, StrikerEZ said: Well, Denth does have the Royal Locks. He's also a Returned. All Returned would have the Royal Locks. If all Returned have Royal Locks to the point that the locks change without intent (as the Idrian royals do), then why are the Returned so obsessed with marrying into the Idrian line? And why is everyone (including the God King and other gods) shocked to see Siri (and Vivenna) use their Royal Locks? Coppermind, https://coppermind.net/wiki/Royal_Locks, has exactly six people confirmed to have Royal Locks: the five in Siri's and Vivenna's immediate family plus Denth. Ooo, I found a better source!!! Quote Kurkistan Does Denth have the Royal Locks, independent of his being a Returned? Brandon Sanderson Yes. (Good question.) https://wob.coppermind.net/events/190-rfantasy-ama-2013/#e4112 Edited December 27, 2017 by Wit Beyond Measure 1
RShara she/her Posted December 27, 2017 Posted December 27, 2017 13 minutes ago, Wit Beyond Measure said: If all Returned have Royal Locks to the point that the locks change without intent (as the Idrian royals do), then why are the Returned so obsessed with marrying into the Idrian line? And why is everyone (including the God King and other gods) shocked to see Siri (and Vivenna) use their Royal Locks? Coppermind, https://coppermind.net/wiki/Royal_Locks, has exactly six people confirmed to have Royal Locks: the five in Siri's and Vivenna's immediate family plus Denth. Ooo, I found a better source!!! https://wob.coppermind.net/events/190-rfantasy-ama-2013/#e4112 Because perception. The Returned of Lightsong's day don't realize they can change their appearance, or that they are shaped to look how they *think* they should look. Since they don't know that they can change it, and don't try, they essentially can't.
Wit Beyond Measure Posted December 27, 2017 Posted December 27, 2017 12 minutes ago, RShara said: Because perception. The Returned of Lightsong's day don't realize they can change their appearance, or that they are shaped to look how they *think* they should look. Since they don't know that they can change it, and don't try, they essentially can't. Thankfully, the Word of Brandon has clarified that Denth's Royal Locks are not because he is Returned. Denth has the Royal Locks "independent of his being Returned."
StormingTexan he/him Posted December 27, 2017 Posted December 27, 2017 15 minutes ago, RShara said: Because perception. The Returned of Lightsong's day don't realize they can change their appearance, or that they are shaped to look how they *think* they should look. Since they don't know that they can change it, and don't try, they essentially can't. Technically speaking Lightsong does know that they look the way they envision themselves. He mentions it a few times about himself and the other Returned. I agree though he does not know he can change his look. I think it is mentioned that it takes some practice to do this as Vasher and Denth had to learn how to do it.
RShara she/her Posted December 27, 2017 Posted December 27, 2017 11 minutes ago, Wit Beyond Measure said: Thankfully, the Word of Brandon has clarified that Denth's Royal Locks are not because he is Returned. Denth has the Royal Locks "independent of his being Returned." I think we'll need to ask Brandon to clarify that, because Denth should predate the Idrian royal family.
Wit Beyond Measure Posted December 27, 2017 Posted December 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, RShara said: I think we'll need to ask Brandon to clarify that, because Denth should predate the Idrian royal family. Vo, the progenitor of the Idrian royal line, is the very first Returned, which should make him quite old. Vo was said to have died, but so were all of the God Kings. I'd love to ask Brandon more about Vo in particular, but the question seemed pretty clear on Denth's Royal Locks being significant.
Govir Posted December 27, 2017 Posted December 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, RShara said: I think we'll need to ask Brandon to clarify that, because Denth should predate the Idrian royal family. I don't think he does though*. Vo was the first Returned on Nalthis, living only a week. But in that week he impregnated his wife who eventually became ruler and is the beginning of the Royal Locks (the Coppermind article does a better job explaining). Since Denth is a Returned, and Vo was the first Returned, then Denth must have come after Vo and therefore after the Royal Locks. Therefore he could have the Royal Locks (which WoB says he does). *It's possible he predates the Idrian royal family depending on how things played out, but he doesn't predate the Royal Locks. 1
Emily she/her Posted December 31, 2017 Posted December 31, 2017 Also, Azure is a colour name, and doesn’t fit with the typical Alethi name pattern (symmetrical, or symmetrical except for one letter, or ending with -in or -ar. ) That was my first clue, anyway.
Matt O Posted December 31, 2017 Author Posted December 31, 2017 Maybe one has to read this book more than once to grasp it all.. I can assure you that my brain was not able to absorb the pseudo-infodump in the first few chapters in order to figure out that Denth and Vasher were Returned. And when Denth's hair changed colors during his death, my reaction was confusion rather than "ah ha." Still an awesome book
RShara she/her Posted December 31, 2017 Posted December 31, 2017 Vo was NOT the first Returned on Nalthis. Only the first one that the Hallandren have recorded. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/127-salt-lake-city-comiccon-2017/#e5110 Quote Salt Lake City ComicCon 2017 (Sept. 21, 2017) #1 Rank: 1.4958 Sept. 22, 2017 Hide Edit Remove Share Play/PausQuestioner Vasher is called the first Returned. Was he actually the first? Brandon Sanderson He is not the very first person to Return. The lore surrounding Vasher and the first Returned and things like that is not strict on the world. Meaning, it's been many, many years. Footnote: The questioner appears to have conflated Vo, the First Returned, with Vasher.
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