[OB] Elsecaller Ideals

[Stormlightning]

So, I just want to start a discussion on the Ideals for the Elsecallers. We have good reason (and probably proof in a WoB somewhere) to believe that Jasnah has sworn three Ideals, maybe even four.

Obviously the first we know.

The second, or at least one of them, I'm inclined to believe is something like "I will be who I am. I will not let others define me." I think this could be one because it fits really well with the way Ivory talks, and his appreciation for the idea of being unmovable and unchanging.

Another might be related to finding truth, although I worry that I'm just thinking this because of what we've seen from Jasnah as a character, which might be more related to Veristitilian ideals than Radiant Ideals.

What other Ideals might she have found?

[digitalbusker]

So far we seem to have a theme of acknowledging where we fall short and/or would rather not live up to our ideals, so I'd expect there to be something about admitting the comforting untruths you've clung to and discarding them in favor of uncomfortable truths.

[+Extesian]

Given elsecallers are somewhat Machiavellian, I think one oath will be something like "I will act for the greater good, even at the expense of the few".

[Aleksiel]

Ivory said he was troubled by how prone to change people are, so I'd hazard at least one oath has to do with being consistent and logical regardless of where this path may take you. 

[Calderis]

Seeing as this is probably my favorite order, let's compile what we know

Quote

AndrewHB

I wondered if I could follow up to that Machiavelli question. Would Elsecallers be a-- one of those other, uh-- one of those...

Brandon Sanderson

So, yeah. Elsecallers are fairly compatible. Like, Elsecallers feel like the journey is... the journey is the entire species, right? And that the journey is the destination. *inaudible*

Quote

Ironeyes

What kind of qualities attract an inkspren?

Brandon Sanderson

Inkspren do not like how variable humans are. It’s a thing out of honor, and they like people who are logical and willing to think about their lives and not react as much by instinct.

They are looking more - the scholar is the perfect example, but a soldier who is very thoughtful and is not just rushing into battle could be chosen as well.

And that's about it at the moment. 

They dislike how changeable and emotional humans are, and seek thoughtful or logic driven people. 

We don't have much to go on for oaths but something along the lines of "I will weigh the facts, for emotion is untrustworthy." seems somewhat in line. Without knowing the aims of the order though, it's all guesswork. 

Edited December 26, 2017 by Calderis

[Rainier]

3 minutes ago, Calderis said:

They dislike how changeable and emotional humans are, and seek thoughtful or logic driven people. 

We don't have much to go on for oaths but something along the lines of "I will weigh the facts, for emotion is untrustworthy." seems somewhat in line. Without knowing the aims of the order though, it's all guesswork. 

I'll add to this, as I think your summary is a great start. 

The patron of the order of Elsecallers is Battar, whose Divine Attributes are Wise and Careful. Given the comments about logic vs instinct, I'd guess the second ideal is swearing to be careful and wise instead of impulsive and spontaneous.

We saw that Kaladin's ideals have been more about protecting than about leading, so I'd guess that the early ideals for Elsecallers have more to do with wisdom. "I will consider all available options," or "I will decide using logic, not emotions."

Another realization, but this may be why Jasnah is so closed-off and is still single. If her spren and Nahel bond requires her to repress her emotions and rule her life with logic, it stands to reason that would be reflected in her personal life.

[Toaster Retribution]

The Elsecallers like logic. What about: 

"I will never miss a single math lesson, even if I'm very sick."

Jokes aside, "I will base my actions upon the facts I know of" sounds logical enough.

[IllNsickly]

I will never divide by Zero.

[Toaster Retribution]

9 minutes ago, IllNsickly said:

I will never divide by Zero.

Pattern = Elsecaller is confirmed.

[IllNsickly]

@Toaster Retribution

 

perhaps the shared Surge between Elsecallers and Lightweavers is the source of this Oath?

[Angsos]

I think Jasnah being closed has to do with whatever happened to her as a child, maybe she's repressing dealing with it to be an elsecaller but her emotionlessness isn't just because of her order

[Calderis]

17 minutes ago, Angsos said:

I think Jasnah being closed has to do with whatever happened to her as a child, maybe she's repressing dealing with it to be an elsecaller but her emotionlessness isn't just because of her order

On the contrary, her mindset and coping mechanism are due to what happened to her as a child, and that is what drew Ivory. 

The coldness and logic and emotional distance are something that is most likely associated with the order as these are the very things that attracted Ivory in the first place, but thats an issue if the people they are attracted to, not Jasnah in particular. 

How the people ended up that way probably varies, and we don't know what the inciting incident was with Jasnah. It's a fairly safe assumption though, that her childhood trauma is what shaped her, and in turn what drew Ivory. 

[Song]

It is interesting that lies drew Pattern to Shallan, yet truths are what she needs to move forward. There is also lots of speculation that the Windrunner 4th ideal will be something very different than the rest, as Kaladin needs to let go of something (the past? the need to save everyone). 

It isn't really healthy or ideal for Jasnah to coldly act on intellect alone, and Ivory learnt something of that when Jasnah saved Renarin. So I suspect the forth oath will be something to do with the heart and the mind working together.

[Patrick Star]

2 - I will always follow proper code style protocol for my programs

3 - I will always avoid race conditions and code in a thread and process safe manner

4 - I will always create an exhaustive test bench to ensure the validity of my program

5 - I will always reuse code in dedicated helper functions

[digitalbusker]

15 hours ago, Patrick Star said:

2 - I will always follow proper code style protocol for my programs

3 - I will always avoid race conditions and code in a thread and process safe manner

4 - I will always create an exhaustive test bench to ensure the validity of my program

5 - I will always reuse code in dedicated helper functions

I dig it, but your proposed 5th Ideal is way too basic. It should be something like "I AM THE CODE!" but expressed in machine code.

[Patrick Star]

3 hours ago, digitalbusker said:

I dig it, but your proposed 5th Ideal is way too basic. It should be something like "I AM THE CODE!" but expressed in machine code.

Yeah,I was wondering if 5 would technically fit within 2, but it was too important for me to include helper functions lol.

Maybe a better oath 5 will be "I will always follow proper stack discipline and never use pointer arithmetic", that would save me SO MANY SEGFAULTS

[+Oltux72]

I will face all facts, comfortable or uncomfortable.