MistbornEdgedancer he/him Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 Okay, so I did search through the forum to see if anyone had made this topic and I didn't see any post like this so hopefully there's no problem with this. So within Oathbringer, we find out that humans are the original Voidbringers, yeah? And its part of Vorin belief that the Voidbringers kicked the humans out of the Tranquiline Halls. So basing this on the concept that humans came to Roshar from Ashyn (I'm not sure if this is canon fact, or merely speculation?), but that would mean that Ashyn was the Tranquiline Halls - and this makes even more sense with the confirmation that Braize is Damnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy92 Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 I think the theories are that it's either Ashyn or Braize. I think Braize tends to make sense considering there is supposedly a war in the afterlife to reclaim the Tranqueline Halls. That seems to tie into why the Heralds return there following Desolations and where the Fused wait to return as well. It seems likely that it's one of those two planets though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistbornEdgedancer he/him Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 @Andy92 Yeah, I would've considered them both except for the fact that someone (I don't recall if it was Nale or Odium) made a reference to Braize being Damnation. If I had time I'd see if I could find it, but unfortunately I can't right now. (while we're at this could you clarify whether or not it's acceptable to tag someone when you respond to their posts - I'm not sure about that at the moment) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 Brandon has confirmed that humans went from Ashyn to Roshar. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/174-oathbringer-portland-signing/#e8243 Quote Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] A friend of mine wanted me to ask: Was the cataclysm that <rocked> Ashyn and forced its inhabitants into the flying cities Investiture-based, and if it was was it Shardic in nature? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] The same cataclysm that the-- did you finish [Oathbringer]? Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Yes. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] The same cataclysm that they were fleeing, that they caused, is the one that forced people into the skies. 2 minutes ago, MistbornEdgedancer said: @Andy92 Yeah, I would've considered them both except for the fact that someone (I don't recall if it was Nale or Odium) made a reference to Braize being Damnation. If I had time I'd see if I could find it, but unfortunately I can't right now. (while we're at this could you clarify whether or not it's acceptable to tag someone when you respond to their posts - I'm not sure about that at the moment) It was Kaladin just before Szeth came for Dalinar in WoR: Quote He felt as if he were standing above the void itself, Damnation, known as Braize in the old songs. Home to demons and monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy92 Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 I knew Braize = Damnation, but I don't think that rules out the possibility that it used to be the Tranquiline Halls before it became corrupted by Odium. Could explain why there is a war in the afterlife to reclaim them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistbornEdgedancer he/him Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 7 minutes ago, RShara said: It was Kaladin just before Szeth came for Dalinar in WoR Thanks for the clarification 2 minutes ago, Andy92 said: I don't think that rules out the possibility that it used to be the Tranquiline Halls I understand where you're coming from, but to draw from the Vorin beliefs (perhaps not something to base fact on?) but the religion is that the Voidbringers kicked them out of the Tranquiline Halls and the Desolations were attempts to shove the humans from Roshar into Damnation, so I don't think that Braize could be the Halls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy92 Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 Well the Vorin religion also didn't account for the Voidbringers actually being the humans either...the religion's ideals aren't concrete. With that being said, I'm not 100% sure. We know from Mistborn: Secret History that Spoiler the permanent afterlife is the Beyond. Shadesmar/the Cognitive Realm is just a temporary holding place after death. So if the Tranquiline Halls is an actual afterlife, it could be the Beyond. I tend to think it's not the true afterlife though, and the Tranquiline Halls are simply referring to a location in Shadesmar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistbornEdgedancer he/him Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 That's actually also a good point, although I still can't agree because if Damnation is a place in the Physical Realm then I believe that the Tranquiline Halls would be too. 11 minutes ago, Andy92 said: didn't account for the Voidbringers actually being the humans either However, this is exactly what I mean by being unable to base my theory entirely on Vorinism. When I get time, I'll see if there's any WoB on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heir of the Void he/him Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 2 hours ago, MistbornEdgedancer said: So basing this on the concept that humans came to Roshar from Ashyn Seems likely. I don't recall AU making mention of any abnormal rubble belts in the Roshar system that might be the wreckage of a planet, and Braize seems certain to be damnation. 23 minutes ago, MistbornEdgedancer said: That's actually also a good point, although I still can't agree because if Damnation is a place in the Physical Realm then I believe that the Tranquiline Halls would be too. It would have to be - it currently appears that (living? normal-ish?) humans can't actually exist in the Spiritual Realm. Given that it lacks a spatial component altogether, it seems like it would be an incompatible mode of existence. And I doubt humans could be native to Shadesmar; recall that all the food eaten by Kaladin & Co during their excursion was canned. This would imply that it had to be brought from the Physical Realm, meaning that a human settlement in the CR would be dependent on a steady stream of food imports, which would require a developed Physical economy on the other side to trade with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistbornEdgedancer he/him Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Heir of the Void said: Seems likely I think someone did give actual Words of Brandon about the Ashyn-Humans thing, so I think we can regard that as fact. And, yeah, I totally agree with the reasoning of the rest of your post - I actually hadn't considered the difficulties of humans living in Shadesmar/Cognitive Realm, but I feel like that essentially proves that the Hall must be in the Physical Realm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy92 Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 1 hour ago, MistbornEdgedancer said: That's actually also a good point, although I still can't agree because if Damnation is a place in the Physical Realm then I believe that the Tranquiline Halls would be too. I don't think the Damnation they refer to is in the Physical Realm. They may think it is, but I think it's in the Cognitive Realm. AU makes a reference to how Braize is home to a collection of Cognitive Shadows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.S.A.M.K.M Posted December 25, 2017 Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 I wonder if the Vorin church might suggest an expedition back to the original home world. Make their own attempt to reclaim the tranquil halls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistbornEdgedancer he/him Posted December 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 5 hours ago, Andy92 said: AU makes a reference to how Braize is home to a collection of Cognitive Shadows That's also very true too 3 hours ago, .S.A.M.K.M said: Make their own attempt to reclaim the tranquil halls This is an interesting idea, but I doubt it because they're very wary of avoiding anything vaguely blasephemous/heretical and doing the job of the Heralds is pretty deep in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazenella he/him Posted December 25, 2017 Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 5 hours ago, Andy92 said: AU makes a reference to how Braize is home to a collection of Cognitive Shadows. 6 minutes ago, MistbornEdgedancer said: That's also very true too This is almost GUARANTEED to be the Fused. We know that the Fused are Cognitive Shadows "stapled" into a body. The ENTIRE POINT of the Heralds being on Braize/The Oathpact was to trap the Fused there so that they couldn't return to Roshar and start a new Desolation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy92 Posted December 25, 2017 Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 I agree those are probably the Fused. The idea I've thrown around in my head is that the Tranquiline Halls were turned into a prison when Odium got stuck on Braize. That's why there's a "war" in the afterlife to reclaim them. I think the Ashyn theory has merit too. I just haven't thought about it as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ he/him Posted December 25, 2017 Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 Um...I don't know why there is such a huge fuss about what the Tranquiline Halls are. Vorinism has the exact details wrong, but the humans fled from Ashyn (Tranquiline Halls) after they destroyed it, and Braize (Damnation) is just the planet that Odium is Invested in and the Fused and, presumably, other voidspren reside on in between Desolations. I'm pretty sure that the WoB @RShara posted makes it pretty clear that Ashyn is the Tranquiline Halls. Plus, the humans were the original Voidbringers, so that would explain why the Vorin religion says that the Voidbringers destroyed the Tranquiline Halls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.S.A.M.K.M Posted December 25, 2017 Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 I wonder if odium might use magic or assets from that world in his campaign against Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokomis Posted December 31, 2017 Report Share Posted December 31, 2017 Quote that would explain why the Vorin religion says that the Voidbringers destroyed the Tranquiline Halls. Would that mean that Vorinism was originally a Parshman religion? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angsos Posted December 31, 2017 Report Share Posted December 31, 2017 Could Braize have been quite different, then humans and Odium made it damnation, humans fled to Ashyn, destroyed it too just not as thoroughly and ended up on Roshar? Humans obviously didn't have the whole not destroying thing worked out since they destroyed the shattered plains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.S.A.M.K.M Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Cultivation is not a shard of death and destruction. For some reason, I could see her arranging for the power of odium to be channeled into bringing life to damnation. The fused and unmade making the planet be reborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wit Beyond Measure she/her Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Quote windolf7 Is Ashyn the Tranqueline Halls? Brandon Sanderson RAFO. faragorn Actually, my theory is that Braize is both the TQ and Damnation. Gamers will all be familiar with the concept of rezzing after you die, often at a specific place. The legend is that humans were forced out of the TQ and followed to Roshar. If Odium attacked and conquered Braize, and Honor created the heralds before he and Cultivation moved humans to Roshar, then the heralds might very well be rezzing on enemy-held Braize each day as described in the WoK prologue. Against the combined armies of the entire planet they get ganked as described in the prologue, only to rez the next day (kind of like the rez timers in World of Warcraft :-)). WoR confirms that Braize was called Damnation, but I think it is now damnation, and was once the TQ. Brandon Sanderson Excellent theories, strange gaming parallels notwithstanding. Brandon seems fond of the second theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raykoda Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 Huh, I never saw @Wit Beyond Measure's WoB up there. Despite the RAFO, I'm personally going to keep Ashyn = Tranquiline Halls as a fact. One other piece of evidence is (spoilers for the bit from Silence Divine, maybe, but I'm not taking chances). Spoiler is that the 'great disaster' that is mentioned in the Silence Divine chapters is the same as the disaster Honor was raving about, as we learned from the Stormfather. Wob: Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] A friend of mine wanted me to ask: Was the cataclysm that <rocked> Ashyn and forced its inhabitants into the flying cities Investiture-based, and if it was was it Shardic in nature? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] The same cataclysm that the-- did you finish [Oathbringer]? Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Yes. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] The same cataclysm that they were fleeing, that they caused, is the one that forced people into the skies. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/174-oathbringer-portland-signing/#e8243 There's also this WoB that implies there's at least some non-geographical connection between Ashyn and Roshar that will come up later: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/105-17th-shard-forum-qa/#e1238 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.S.A.M.K.M Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 I have this idea that the devastation was caused when humans used the dawn shards, possibly to alter the nine for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ he/him Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 On December 30, 2017 at 9:45 PM, Angsos said: Could Braize have been quite different, then humans and Odium made it damnation, humans fled to Ashyn, destroyed it too just not as thoroughly and ended up on Roshar? Humans obviously didn't have the whole not destroying thing worked out since they destroyed the shattered plains Well, I doubt that Braize is even more destroyed than Ashyn. In fact according to the Rosharan essay in Arcanum Unbounded, it's anything but destroyed. It's actually a frozen wasteland of a planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.S.A.M.K.M Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 Apart from cold, how else is damnation uninhabitable. I could totally see cultivation setting up a viable ecosystem here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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