[OB] New Heralds

[TheWarriorPoet]

Hi,

Since i finished Oathbringer around a month ago, i am thinking about death of Herald King Jezrien. It was not related to main storyline, and so far heralds other then Naln had any major viewpoint in the series, then why was Jezrien killed. 

1. To tell us that Odium gave Fused the weapons to kill heralds who are otherwise Immortal, and other heralds can be killed using same weapon.

2. Is it possible that the first Knights in stormlight series i.e. Kaladin, Shallan, Daliner etc will be new heralds at the end of the series? 

Earlier in the book when Daliner touched the power, i thought he will take place of honor, but it looks unlikely, so will we be seeing new heralds bound by the Oathpact at the end of first part of stormlight series?

[evanna]

That would be cruel and inhuman, I don't want them to be tormented for eternity!

Though I am afraid that Brandon is actually able to do such a horrifying thing.

[RShara]

I think renewing the Oathpact with new Heralds would be stupid.  It's proven that it doesn't work.  Doing it again is a dirty bandaid on a cut the size of Taln's Scar.  Some other solution needs to be found.

[Ailvara]

21 minutes ago, RShara said:

I think renewing the Oathpact with new Heralds would be stupid.  It's proven that it doesn't work.  Doing it again is a dirty bandaid on a cut the size of Taln's Scar.  Some other solution needs to be found.

It did work for some time. I wouldn't be surprised if they did it precisely to have a temporary band-aid at the end of book 5 and then come up with something better until book 10.

3 hours ago, evanna said:

That would be cruel and inhuman, I don't want them to be tormented for eternity!

Though I am afraid that Brandon is actually able to do such a horrifying thing.

In that case, they would only be tormented for about fifteen years, and later possibly continue to enjoy immortality and other perks without any more desolations. Sounds like a good deal. 

[Kered]

I don't know about a new Oathpact, but I do believe the core KR(Dalinar, Kaladin, Shallan, Jasnah, Lift, etc) will be elevated to something greater than just surebinders and Radiant's. We have 7 books to go and the core peeps are pretty strong already, Dalinar and Jasnah particularly. I think they'll need to attain greater power in order to defeat Odium(their first full on confrontation with him could be what causes the 10-15 year gap between book 5 and 6). I think Cultivation will try to learn from Honor's and the old Heralds mistakes and attempt to create "Heralds 2.0" out of the core cast. I don't think there will be a full ten new Heralds, as we now know each Shard has a number that is significant to them and Honor's was 10. Meaning Cultivation has her own number, so that is likely the amount of people she will "power up". 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Kered

[Rainier]

8 hours ago, TheWarriorPoet said:

2. Is it possible that the first Knights in stormlight series i.e. Kaladin, Shallan, Daliner etc will be new heralds at the end of the series? 

4 hours ago, Ailvara said:

It did work for some time. I wouldn't be surprised if they did it precisely to have a temporary band-aid at the end of book 5 and then come up with something better until book 10.

This is exactly what I'm expecting. My prediction is what @Ailvara said: that we'll get an end to this Desolation at the end of Book 5, and the gap between books 5 and 6 is the gap between Desolations. I'm expecting the 10 backstory characters to be the 10 Heralds bound to the Oathpact, so Ash and Taln would repeat their roles, although Ash would take the role of Dustbringer. I'll take bets on which Herald breaks.

This idea crystallized for me when I read about how the Desolations would come back repeatedly, with a gap of years in between. Where are we expecting a 10+ year gap? Why might that be the case? Oh yes! Becuase all of our main characters are trapped in Damnation being tortured, we'll just take a pause until one of them breaks. 

[TheWarriorPoet]

14 hours ago, Ailvara said:

It did work for some time. I wouldn't be surprised if they did it precisely to have a temporary band-aid at the end of book 5 and then come up with something better until book 10.

In that case, they would only be tormented for about fifteen years, and later possibly continue to enjoy immortality and other perks without any more desolations. Sounds like a good deal. 

I don't think they will enjoy immortality, because by the end of book 10 the struggle on Rosher would be over and only 1 Shard would remain like in Mistborn.

What i think that at the end of stormlight series, we will see all the major characters from cosmere move to dragonsteel where the grand climax of the Cosmere would be written, i suspect it will be Hoid on one side and Odium or remaining shards on other side, with HOID probably being the good guy. Then these super powerful humans will clash and it will be a epic grand finale

[Leyrann]

4 hours ago, TheWarriorPoet said:

I don't think they will enjoy immortality, because by the end of book 10 the struggle on Rosher would be over and only 1 Shard would remain like in Mistborn.

What i think that at the end of stormlight series, we will see all the major characters from cosmere move to dragonsteel where the grand climax of the Cosmere would be written, i suspect it will be Hoid on one side and Odium or remaining shards on other side, with HOID probably being the good guy. Then these super powerful humans will clash and it will be a epic grand finale

Dragonsteel is chronologically first, so before any of our main character's births*. We know, however, that MB4 will be the grand finale of the cosmere, so they'll most likely enjoy long lives, experience technological advancement, get into contact with Scadrial, and then they'll play a part in the finale.

*Except of course Hoid and the original Vessels.

[TheWarriorPoet]

12 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

Dragonsteel is chronologically first, so before any of our main character's births*. We know, however, that MB4 will be the grand finale of the cosmere, so they'll most likely enjoy long lives, experience technological advancement, get into contact with Scadrial, and then they'll play a part in the finale.

 

Hmm, ok. I thought we will see grand finale on Yolen as it is where the cosmere begun. But even if its on Scadrial the thought remains same, the elite group which enjoys immortality will team up with original 17th shard Hoid (hopefully) and restore adonalisium or whatever it is.

[Leyrann]

9 minutes ago, TheWarriorPoet said:

Hmm, ok. I thought we will see grand finale on Yolen as it is where the cosmere begun. But even if its on Scadrial the thought remains same, the elite group which enjoys immortality will team up with original 17th shard Hoid (hopefully) and restore adonalisium or whatever it is.

To be fair I think the grand finale won't really be on a single planet. Pretty sure Brandon told us, for example, that it's possible to use Allomancy for FTL travel. The same might be possible with the Gravitation Surge if you lash enough times, I suppose, or even just 'fall' for a long enough distance, though relativistic effects might mess that up; I'm not sure.

[TheWarriorPoet]

3 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

To be fair I think the grand finale won't really be on a single planet. Pretty sure Brandon told us, for example, that it's possible to use Allomancy for FTL travel. The same might be possible with the Gravitation Surge if you lash enough times, I suppose, or even just 'fall' for a long enough distance, though relativistic effects might mess that up; I'm not sure.

I am hoping the final battle to be between 2 individuals, HOID and Adonalisium. Brandon said that someone was opposing Adonalisium and that thing is still around, i guess except 16 original vessels only HOID was the one who is still around. But then HOID is a character who can be anyone 

[.S.A.M.K.M]

Being a herald allowed you to surge bind without a spren, so they never had shard plate either. I wonder what happens if the honor blades are wielded by knight radiants. The combination of power might have a unique effect.

[RShara]

12 minutes ago, .S.A.M.K.M said:

Being a herald allowed you to surge bind without a spren, so they never had shard plate either. I wonder what happens if the honor blades are wielded by knight radiants. The combination of power might have a unique effect.

Nale's been doing that for a while.

[.S.A.M.K.M]

Nale has also been able to take control of the order of sky breakers, and hunt down potential surge binders accross the world. So having such an advantage had to be useful.

[Subvisual Haze]

I know the [expletive deleted] Moash bandwagon is very popular right now, but he might be the best current possibility for holding back another desolation.

Moash was given both Jezrien's powers/soul to some unknown degree through the gemmed dagger, and also wields Jezrien's honorblade.  I think the possibility exists that he could eventually choose to take up Jezrien's place in the Honorpact?

I don't particularly love Moash at the moment either, but that would be one hell of redemption arc.  Consigning himself to torture in Damnation as atonement for his wrongs and buying humanity more time to survive.

[TheWarriorPoet]

2 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

I know the [expletive deleted] Moash bandwagon is very popular right now, but he might be the best current possibility for holding back another desolation.

Moash was given both Jezrien's powers/soul to some unknown degree through the gemmed dagger, and also wields Jezrien's honorblade.  I think the possibility exists that he could eventually choose to take up Jezrien's place in the Honorpact?

I don't particularly love Moash at the moment either, but that would be one hell of redemption arc.  Consigning himself to torture in Damnation as atonement for his wrongs and buying humanity more time to survive.

While i would love Moash to become a positive character once again, i don't think he is the right fit to take Lead place in honorpact, specially when he himself had broke his Oath to Bridge four and then with Humans. I am more inclined to the idea of Moash becoming Odium's champion in the fight against humans.

[Subvisual Haze]

19 minutes ago, TheWarriorPoet said:

While i would love Moash to become a positive character once again, i don't think he is the right fit to take Lead place in honorpact, specially when he himself had broke his Oath to Bridge four and then with Humans. I am more inclined to the idea of Moash becoming Odium's champion in the fight against humans.

Well, we know there's a brief time gap planned between the first 5 and last 5 Stormlight books.  I could see Moash (or perhaps someone else), holding the gap for a couple years, at least stopping the Fused from respawning for a while.  Not a permanent solution, but a play for time.

[TheWarriorPoet]

 

3 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Well, we know there's a brief time gap planned between the first 5 and last 5 Stormlight books.  I could see Moash (or perhaps someone else), holding the gap for a couple years, at least stopping the Fused from respawning for a while.  Not a permanent solution, but a play for time.

I think this gap will be more like a gap between 2 desolations, because someone like Odium will not sit idle for 10-15 years just because a puny human is opposing him. It looks less likely, and then since Dalinar had defied him, Odium at this point have no other character who is fit to be his champion except Moash. Its good to expect everyone turning good at the end but eventually we need some bad guys too. Unless Odium somehow convince HOID to be his champion, in which case the desolation would be a much better choice   

[StormingTexan]

23 minutes ago, TheWarriorPoet said:

 

I think this gap will be more like a gap between 2 desolations, because someone like Odium will not sit idle for 10-15 years just because a puny human is opposing him. It looks less likely, and then since Dalinar had defied him, Odium at this point have no other character who is fit to be his champion except Moash. Its good to expect everyone turning good at the end but eventually we need some bad guys too. Unless Odium somehow convince HOID to be his champion, in which case the desolation would be a much better choice   

I don't think there will be 2 desolations because this means somehow the Everstorm is stopped. Not saying that is impossible to do but I think the more likely event is Odiums champion is defeated which buys them some time. 

[RShara]

There's a question of whether a new Oathpact would even work.  The Fused don't return to Damnation at all any more.  They float around in the Everstorm until they find a new body. The Oathpact kept them from leaving Damnation, but they're not ever even going to Damnation, being kept from coming back isn't very helpful.

[Scion of the Mists]

19 hours ago, .S.A.M.K.M said:

Being a herald allowed you to surge bind without a spren, so they never had shard plate either. I wonder what happens if the honor blades are wielded by knight radiants. The combination of power might have a unique effect.

 

Honorblades wielded by Knights Radiant would either grant access to new surges, or slightly enhance existing surges.  WOB

 

Quote

 

Questioner (paraphrased)

If a non-Windrunner picked up Jezrien's Honorblade would they gain Windrunner powers as well?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

Questioner (paraphrased)

If a Windrunner picked up that blade, would their abilities be enhanced?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There would be some compounding but strength is not as much an issue with Surgebinding as is the strength of the spren bond and how much Stormlight you are using.

 

 

[.S.A.M.K.M]

I wonder if the presence of all of the honor blades might be enough to awaken the tower.

 

we know the heralds are tied to the oath pact, but does that include their sword.

[TheWarriorPoet]

18 hours ago, RShara said:

There's a question of whether a new Oathpact would even work.  The Fused don't return to Damnation at all any more.  They float around in the Everstorm until they find a new body. The Oathpact kept them from leaving Damnation, but they're not ever even going to Damnation, being kept from coming back isn't very helpful.

I think Oathact was not just about keeping fused trapped in damnation, it was more then that. Since it is clear that Odium is still bound by the pact, it is not about new oathpact, specially when original is still binding. I thing the key to defeat Odium lies in the pact.

[Mike son son Al]

I don’t think we will have new Heralds, however they will all swear the fifth Ideal for their orders.  

As for being able to kill Heralds, that blade/metal should also be able to permanently kill a Fused.

We also have Nightblood in play, which may be able to kill Fused, Heralds, spren? Shards?

[.S.A.M.K.M]

If the fused are tied somehow to the Everstorm, that could be used against them if the oath pact is broken. Since the high storm comes from origin, it makes sense if the ever storm comes from the void version.

my theory is that using an epic fabrial containing all of the unmade in perfect gemstones, they could target every one of the fused via the ever storm. Using the power of the unmade, to transform them permanently into a form of a thunderclast. A new species to populate the desolate world of blaize.