OdiYum Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 Odium accepted a contest of champions. At the time Dalinar represented both Honor's and Odium's champion. Dalinar chose the path of honor. Does that mean that Odium's champion lost? Is that why he had to flee because he would have lost the contest, forcing Odium to rely on conventional forces through the diagram? Does this mean that Odium cannot actively intervene in this desolation? Am I crazy? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lDanielHolm he/him Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 That's a bit of a stretch, in my opinion. I think it's more likely that Odium hasn't chosen a champion after Dalinar refused to be it, and that's why Odium can't personally step in anymore. He needs a champion to act in his stead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ymawgat Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 I don't think so, "contest of champions" is champions - plural. Also like, the objective of the contest is to win time from Odium, and the point where this makes the most sense is after book 5 - where we already know there's going to be a 15 year time skip. 3 minutes ago, OdiYum said: Is that why he had to flee because he would have lost the contest, forcing Odium to rely on conventional forces through the diagram? I think he left the battle of Thaylen City because he was just spooked by honour's perpendicularity showing up. 5 minutes ago, OdiYum said: Does this mean that Odium cannot actively intervene in this desolation? I'm pretty sure that that was already part of the oathpact? So far we've not really seen Odium act directly (not acting through an unmade, spren, the everstorm, Dalinar's visions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Investor Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 Odium had to flee because Dalinar can force a contest if he sees Odium again, shown by the diagram at the end of OB. I don't think the oathpact involves Odium at all. Instead, Odium is bound by the powers of Honor and Cultivation, and also the fear of a strike from Cultivation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLeeopard she/her Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 The contest isn't over yet, it hasn't even begun. Odium fled because after Dalinar overcame the odiuous part of himself Odium was left without a champion, and Honor's three most likely champions were all on the immediate vicinity. Meaning Honor's side was ready with guns blazing while Odium's champion had just fallen appart. He fled likely to go find another champion, and because if he had stayed Dalinar could have forced the contest and Odium would be wrecked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbeckett Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 35 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said: Odium had to flee because Dalinar can force a contest if he sees Odium again, shown by the diagram at the end of OB. I wonder, would this mean that Dalinar can safely use the visions again with world rulers because Odium can't show himself to Dalinar anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLeeopard she/her Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Wolfbeckett said: I wonder, would this mean that Dalinar can safely use the visions again with world rulers because Odium can't show himself to Dalinar anymore? Probably. For all we know the visions were always safe to use so long as they were aware of the possible danger. They didn't have enough information regarding them either way. Edited December 3, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 What we saw was likely the whole point of Tanavast's advice to Dalinar. By declaring a contest of champions and making it clear that there is a possibility that Odium could lose, Odium has now been forced to withdraw from direct leadership of his war. Odium was hoping he could subvert the contest entirely by making Dalinar his own champion and thus forfeiting the contest before it even began for Honor. It didn't win the war, but it limited the direct influence that Odium can bring in the conflict. It was also good from a meta-narrative perspective in my opinion. Odium directly commanding his troops diminished a lot of the mystery behind him as a villain. Odium as a chess-master moving his pieces from the shadows will be more interesting than a physical white-gold avatar at the front of his army or a spirit trolling Dalinar's dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatsmorn Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 *me reads the title* Omae wa mou shindeiru *flies away* 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberyn he/him Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said: What we saw was likely the whole point of Tanavast's advice to Dalinar. By declaring a contest of champions and making it clear that there is a possibility that Odium could lose, Odium has now been forced to withdraw from direct leadership of his war. Odium was hoping he could subvert the contest entirely by making Dalinar his own champion and thus forfeiting the contest before it even began for Honor. It didn't win the war, but it limited the direct influence that Odium can bring in the conflict. It was also good from a meta-narrative perspective in my opinion. Odium directly commanding his troops diminished a lot of the mystery behind him as a villain. Odium as a chess-master moving his pieces from the shadows will be more interesting than a physical white-gold avatar at the front of his army or a spirit trolling Dalinar's dreams. I actually like that odium showed up so heavily in this book including his commanding of troops. I felt he had too much mystery actually. He is still very mysterious, we don't know anything about the guy. His progress from the illusion(which was one incredible opening) from physical commanding was smooth for me. I loved the vibe and the smack in the face he received from Dalinar, which resulted in his retreat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 No. But Odium's likely going to be less involved in the next two books. The 15 year gap will likely involve him coming back as a major force after the Fused War has been finished and the Singers/Listeners/Parsh have peace and freedom with the humans. This will probably involve the capture of a few more unmade, the end of the Everstorm at the end of the next book, and a big dramatic conclusion at the end of book 5.(Which hopefully will not involve another Oathpact as its a proven bad solution.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Investor Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 8 hours ago, Wolfbeckett said: I wonder, would this mean that Dalinar can safely use the visions again with world rulers because Odium can't show himself to Dalinar anymore? I actually thought it a little later, it does likely mean safe use of the visions again. Odium can still visit parsh and humans inside the storm, and can personally lead whenever Dalinar isn't present, so I would expect him to continue his involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 Odium is now bound to the Champions' contest and Dalinar could start this simply meeting with him. So Odium can't meet Dalinar and therefore everyplace Dalinar is, is immune to Odium's direct influence and this include the Visions too. I would really like if the Stormfather's bond allows Dalinar to extend his "immunity" to the Spren and therefore deny Odium from messing with the Highstorms and the places where the Hightstorms are 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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