[OB] Adolin's breaking

[Steeldancer he/him]

I think everyone is to some degree or another broken. Not much to it. It's not all as extreme as Shallan or Kaladin.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Varion said:

Dude just got married. He's got plenty of trials ahead of him, don't worry. 

Many of us thought he had trials ahead of him because he murdered Sadeas, hence I certainly do no think  him being married is going to carry many.

3 hours ago, Greywatch said:

 There's a reason the resolution of the Sadeas murder arc in OB wasn't in the murder becoming public knowledge, but in telling Dalinar and what Dalinar's reaction.

There was literally no pay-off in Dalinar finding out about it, hence I disagree thus was supposed to be the big arc. It never happened. Dalinar had no reaction towards learning the truth, hence whichever stance readers may take, the only ones who got it right where the ones whom hated the arc and were rooting for it not to matter. Anyone whom felt concerned by it was disappointed in one way or the other, hence to state Dalinar's reaction was the pay-off is plain wrong.  Dalinar's reaction didn't matter. Nothing mattered when it came to Adolin within this book.

[Greywatch she/her]

30 minutes ago, maxal said:

There was literally no pay-off in Dalinar finding out about it, hence I disagree thus was supposed to be the big arc. It never happened. Dalinar had no reaction towards learning the truth, hence whichever stance readers may take, the only ones who got it right where the ones whom hated the arc and were rooting for it not to matter. Anyone whom felt concerned by it was disappointed in one way or the other, hence to state Dalinar's reaction was the pay-off is plain wrong.  Dalinar's reaction didn't matter. Nothing mattered when it came to Adolin within this book.

Note that I didn't say payoff. I said resolution, and I stand by it.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Greywatch said:

Note that I didn't say payoff. I said resolution, and I stand by it.

Then I have to disagree because I read no resolution in OB. I read a story arc which vanished into the background, but I can't say any of it was satisfying nor felt like a resolution. I felt like it was skipped all together, but I understand other readers disagree. 

[TJtheWiz]

19 hours ago, maxal said:

Then I have to disagree because I read no resolution in OB. I read a story arc which vanished into the background, but I can't say any of it was satisfying nor felt like a resolution. I felt like it was skipped all together, but I understand other readers disagree. 

I partially agree with you. I feel like the story arc somewhat disappeared for a while and left us to infer how the Adolin's murder of Sadeas affected him. I think it would have been nice if Brandon had given us a little more information as to how Adolin was affected by the murder, both through guilt and by reparations when he was found to be the murderer. However, I feel that it will be resolved in the next book somehow; Brandon can't just leave something as important as a murder of a highprince (even a distasteful one) alone. I think that from Dalinar's reaction we know that while he will be lenient to Adolin, he will not let him go without some sort of punishment. The end of Oathbringer was, in my opinion, just not the right time to reveal how Adolin was forced to repair what he did wrong, and would have created an ending that didn't tie things up properly.

The resolution will probably occur in the next book, and I feel that it will make up for not having the resolution in Oathbringer.

Edited December 18, 2017 by TJtheWiz

[Borio Singaldi he/him]

I think the point of Sadeas' death by Adolin reached the fulfillment of its arc in the Battle of Thaylen Field. Odium (or more direclty, Nergaoul) used the Thrill to incite the Sadeas soldiers against Dalinar and the coalition. Why? Because they blamed him for the murder of their highprince and let the Thrill take control. I believe that narratively, that was the point of Sadeas' death -- it set up the Battle of Thaylen Field and justified the sudden turning of the Sadeas soldiers to the bad side without making it seem like a cliched mind control move. Narrative genius at the price of no consequence for the one sort of behind it, because Adolin has yet to own up to that too, I suppose. I'm just trying to say that that was why Sadeas died and that was the payoff of it; reasoning behind the Battle of Thaylen Field. I am partial to the sentiment that Adolin may fade into being a conforming background character, seeing as he didn't take responsibility for it until long after the battle ended. As well as all the other points stated about him.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, TJtheWiz said:

I partiall. I feel like the story arc somewhat disappeared for a while and left us to infer how the Adolin's murder of Sadeas affected him. I think it would have been nice if Brandon had given us a little more information as to how Adolin was affected by the murder, both through guilt and by reparations when he was found to be the murderer. However, I feel that it will be resolved in the next book somehow; Brandon can't just leave something as important as a murder of a highprince (even a distasteful one) alone. I think that from Dalinar's reaction we know that while he will be lenient to Adolin, he will not let him go without some sort of punishment. The end of Oathbringer was, in my opinion, just not the right time to reveal how Adolin was forced to repair what he did wrong, and would have created an ending that didn't tie things up properly.

The resolution will probably occur in the next book, and I feel that it will make up for not having the resolution in Oathbringer.

Some people have expressed the thought the story arc might get better resolution within the next book. So while I certainly hope it could the case, I fear the planned in-world one year gap combined with the fact Brandon didn't think he needed to capitalize onto the cliff-hanger he wrote himself makes it highly unlikely more will be written with respect to Sadeas.

Already, by the end of OB, Adolin having murdered Sadeas had become irrelevant. It doesn't seem probably it will suddenly become a story arc now the moment has passed.

17 hours ago, Ookla the Rusty said:

I think the point of Sadeas' death by Adolin reached the fulfillment of its arc in the Battle of Thaylen Field. Odium (or more direclty, Nergaoul) used the Thrill to incite the Sadeas soldiers against Dalinar and the coalition. Why? Because they blamed him for the murder of their highprince and let the Thrill take control. I believe that narratively, that was the point of Sadeas' death -- it set up the Battle of Thaylen Field and justified the sudden turning of the Sadeas soldiers to the bad side without making it seem like a cliched mind control move. Narrative genius at the price of no consequence for the one sort of behind it, because Adolin has yet to own up to that too, I suppose. I'm just trying to say that that was why Sadeas died and that was the payoff of it; reasoning behind the Battle of Thaylen Field. I am partial to the sentiment that Adolin may fade into being a conforming background character, seeing as he didn't take responsibility for it until long after the battle ended. As well as all the other points stated about him.

I might have misspoke. Sadeas being murdered did have consequences, the fact it was Adolin whom killed him didn't.

Let's assume, for the shake of the exercise, Sadeas was not murdered by Adolin, but by Random Soldier #33. What changes within the narrative?

- Bridge 4 still finds the body.

- The copy-cat murder still happens

- Adolin still gets appointed to investigate the murder. He still makes the same speculation it might have been two killers based on the "everyone hates Sadeas, everyone loved Peverel" argument. 

- Shallan still starts to hunt Re-Shephir.

- Ialai still suspects either Dalinar or someone from his army to be the culprit. Adolin still lashes at her.

- Amaram still gets named Highprince, Adolin still calls him bastard and the Kholins still refuse to work with him which led him to his future collapse.

- The Sadeas's soldiers still think Dalinar is behind the murder, they still get manipulated by Odium, they still betray Alethkar: the last battle and the book ending is spot identical.

Now, how about Adolin's character, what changes within his narrative if he didn't kill Sadeas?

- He doesn't have a reaction upon seeing Peverel's dead body, but since his reaction doesn't influence any plot point, the story follows its course. He still starts to investigate the murder case, he still shares the information with Shallan.

- His relationship with Shallan still develops within the exact same manner.

- He still goes to Kholinar. In Kholinar, he still suggest his tailor as a safe-house, he still takes over the attack onto the palace. He doesn't muse on the fact he murdered Sadeas, but since this absolutely does not influence any of his subsequent decision making, then the narrative happens exactly as within the book.

- He still falls in Shadesmar where he still feels over-whelmed. He does not tell Shallan about Sadeas, but his telling turned being irrelevant. He and Shallan still have their moment. Adolin still gets to know Maya, he still gets stab by the Fused, Maya still saves him. Adolin still muses on how he does not want to become king. Nothing is changed within this arc. 

- He still fights the thunderclast, he still starts reviving Maya. He still feels sorry for needing to kill other Alethi, he does not muse over the fact he did kill Sadeas, but again, this has absolutely no impact on any action his character takes.

- He and Shallan still get married. Adolin still finds a way out of being king. Him having murdering Sadeas is not the reason he got out of it, Dalinar was willing to pass the sponge on that.

Hence, no matter how I shuffle it, I always come to the same conclusion: having Adolin murdered Sadeas served absolutely no plot point, it caused no changes within Adolin's character nor does it ever influence any of his decision making. If he does muse on it, on occasions, it does not have for consequences to influence any of his actions.

Having Random Soldier #33 murdering Sadeas yields the exact same story arc with a few minor very subtle changes. The identity of the murdered had zero impact onto the narrative which is why I consider it was handled in an under-whelming way.

[GoddessIMHO]

WOB from Reddit 1 Jan 2016 about Adolin with my bolding of the text. Did I just verbize a noun?

 

Quote

 

Brandon Sanderson

I was well aware that I needed certain things about Renarin to remain off-screen until later books, and him being a viewpoint character early would undermine these later books.

Adolin is a happy surprise and works exactly because he doesn't need to be at the forefront, even after I boosted his role. With Adolin, what you see is really what you get, which is refreshing in the books--but it also means I don't need huge numbers of pages to characterize him, delve into his backstory, etc. He works as a side character who gives more to the story than he demands pages to fullfill that giving, if that makes sense. Renarin is more like a pandora's box. Open him up, and we're committed to a LOT of pages. (Good pages, but that was the problem with TWOK Prime--everyone was demanding so many pages, from Renarn, to Jasnah, to Kaladin, to Taln, that none of their stories could progress.)

 

 

[Furry-And-Lovable-Grover he/him]

51 minutes ago, maxal said:

- He and Shallan still get married. Adolin still finds a way out of being king. Him having murdering Sadeas is not the reason he got out of it, Dalinar was willing to pass the sponge on that.

Hence, no matter how I shuffle it, I always come to the same conclusion: having Adolin murdered Sadeas served absolutely no plot point, it caused no changes within Adolin's character nor does it ever influence any of his decision making. If he does muse on it, on occasions, it does not have for consequences to influence any of his actions.

Having Random Soldier #33 murdering Sadeas yields the exact same story arc with a few minor very subtle changes. The identity of the murdered had zero impact onto the narrative which is why I consider it was handled in an under-whelming way.

You're doing some handwaving here that I think glosses over a very important fact. Dalinar was insisting on Adolin taking the throne. Dalinar depended on Adolin, because that's the kind of person that Adoin is, and that Dalinar expected him to be. Dalinar wasn't going to take 'No' for an answer. No sponge passing as you put it. Adolin kept trying not to take it. Might even have characteristically have wanted it if he didn't have to face the moral consequences of Sadeas' murder.  For Dalinar, the ethical and political backlash of putting his son, the murderer of his nemesis on the Alethi Throne robs Dalinar of any legitimacy. Dalinar only let Adolin off the hook because of the problems that his confession brings up. In fact, if we want to talk about Adolin not standing up to his father, this is a perfect example of him doing exactly that. 

I'm certainly willing to agree that I think Adolin falls a little flat in this book, but I can't imagine that with everything going on that Adolin is going to be truly free of consequence either. It would certainly be a path that would allow Adolin to have a stint as a major POV character in SA4 or another book. 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Jhardin
For Clarification

[Varion he/him]

19 hours ago, maxal said:

Many of us thought he had trials ahead of him because he murdered Sadeas, hence I certainly do no think  him being married is going to carry many.

Clearly you've never been married!

I'm joking of course. It was a throw away line. But don't count it out either. There is a loooooong way to go in this series. I think you need to step back a little and look at the long game Brandon is playing. He's managing a big cast, and you can't have all your major and supporting characters dealing with deep existential crises all at the same time, all the time. Take a moment and just consider how much more dark and depressing Oathbringer could have been if, in addition to Dalinar's flashbacks, Shallan's fracturing personalities, Kaladin's battle freeze, and Bridge Four's various personal tribulations, Adolin was also plumbing the depths of his soul, or perhaps the depths of Urithiru's dungeons. Having supporting characters like Adolin help to keep the books emotionally balanced. 

Adolin has been the stable one so far. The foil for Brandon to use to contrast the experiences of the Radiants. He is the Ron Weasley to Roshar's team of glowing Harry Potters. And in each book he has played a strong supporting role to Dalinar, Kaladin, and Shallan, often when they need it most. Has he been too good to be true? Maybe, but boy Brandon sure has made a point of having all the characters comment how likeable, and earnest, and just all-round perfect he is. It all sounds like a big build up to me. There's something coming for Adolin, and it's going to have an impact on everyone around him. 

Having said all that, I agree that the whole Sadeas murder plot really fizzled. I didn't mind too much, because there was so much else going on, but given that it was THE cliffhanger to end WoR, I thought it deserved more fallout for Adolin than simply some guilty hand wringing for a few weeks. 

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, GoddessIMHO said:

WOB from Reddit 1 Jan 2016 about Adolin with my bolding of the text. Did I just verbize a noun?

I am aware of this WoB. I however strongly disagree with the author here. Just the amount of contradictory discussions onto Adolin's character having several readers struggle to determine his inner motivations, whether he is broken or not and where he is going is enough to tell me while Brandon states "what we see is what we get", readers do not think it is so obvious.

If Adolin were as obvious as Brandon thinks he is, nobody would be talking about it. My current take however is the simplest explanation is probably the right one because Brandon said those things, but it makes me very sorry this is the case.

47 minutes ago, Jhardin said:

You're doing some handwaving here that I think glosses over a very important fact. Dalinar was insisting on Adolin taking the throne. Dalinar depended on Adolin, because that's the kind of person that Adoin is, and that Dalinar expected him to be. Dalinar wasn't going to take 'No' for an answer. No sponge passing as you put it. Adolin kept trying not to take it. Might even have characteristically have wanted it if he didn't have to face the moral consequences of Sadeas' murder.  For Dalinar, the ethical and political backlash of putting his son, the murderer of his nemesis on the Alethi Throne robs Dalinar of any legitimacy. Dalinar only let Adolin off the hook because of the problems that his confession brings up. In fact, if we want to talk about Adolin not standing up to his father, this is a perfect example of him doing exactly that. 

I'm certainly willing to agree that I think Adolin falls a little flat in this book, but I can't imagine that with everything going on that Adolin is going to be truly free of consequence either. It would certainly be a path that would allow Adolin to have a stint as a major POV character in SA4 or another book. 

While it is true Adolin initially uses the fact he murdered Sadeas as an excuse to bail out, I would point out Dalinar is not willing to let him drop out of it for this specific reason. Adolin adds more in saying he does not want it and nobody would listen to him anyway. He says a firm no and whether he likes it or not, Dalinar cannot force him. Dalinar also does not believe the fact Adolin murdered Sadeas would prevent him from being king: he says so within the text.

Adolin also firmly stated he never wanted the throne: his refusal has nothing to do with Sadeas. He speaks of how he had always knew it could come his way, but he has spent a lifetime fervently hoping it would never happened. Hence, it is false to say Adolin doesn't want the throne because of Sadeas: he never wanted it. Back in WoK, he also states not wanting to be Highprince which, I am assuming, ended up being the lesser of two bad choices, hence Adolin abdicates and agrees to be the Highprince. I however think it is important to note, that too, he never wanted. It also is the only way I consider this character arc could ever be interesting: if Adolin is made to be miserable as a Highprince, effective, but unhappy with the burden of responsibility wearing him thin, but I doubt Brandon will go down this road. Adolin will probably be the perfect Highprince.

In the end, Sadeas just ended being an excuse Adolin used hoping it would be enough and he wouldn't have to state the real reasons why he does not want to be king. Turns out if wasn't even strong enough for this and Adolin did have to further justify himself. Therefore, even this very dim consequences didn't really happen because of Sadeas and would have likely happened without him.

46 minutes ago, Varion said:

Clearly you've never been married!

I have been married for the pass 8 years, but I have been with my husband for 17 years 

48 minutes ago, Varion said:

Adolin has been the stable one so far. The foil for Brandon to use to contrast the experiences of the Radiants. He is the Ron Weasley to Roshar's team of glowing Harry Potters. And in each book he has played a strong supporting role to Dalinar, Kaladin, and Shallan, often when they need it most. Has he been too good to be true? Maybe, but boy Brandon sure has made a point of having all the characters comment how likeable, and earnest, and just all-round perfect he is. It all sounds like a big build up to me. There's something coming for Adolin, and it's going to have an impact on everyone around him. 

I do not generally mind stable nor foil characters, but they don't typically have viewpoints nor do they have their story arc end in a cliff-hanger. Had Adolin stayed in the background since WoK, had he never gotten viewpoints and had he not kill Sadeas, we would probably not have this discussion. My personal feelings is Adolin outgrew his role as the "steady normal guy" the minute he stabbed Sadeas and the hour everyone within his family was made a Radiant, but Brandon wrote the character as if none of this ever mattered, resolved in his need to have Adolin keep on being used in such a casual manner.

I also personally think viewpoints onto a static character are, on average, wasted because readers will always expect a viewpoint character to have a story, an arc, to grow. A viewpoint character should never remain static. Ron is not a viewpoint character, Harry is and, as such, Ron is allowed to the "comical-relief", though he arguably ends up getting growth as the story moves forward.

Adolin is currently being written as the perfect human being: he is likable, earnest, nice, caring, handsome. He has no visible flaws and the ones we can rationalize he does have are meaningless within the overall narrative. Is it a big built up? I would have been inclined to believe it, back in WoR, but after OB, I no longer believe Brandon has great plans for Adolin. I think he intends to keep on using the character as he has with the addition of Maya, but as I said, if Brandon doesn't extrapolate on Adolin, this arc will fall flat.

54 minutes ago, Varion said:

Having said all that, I agree that the whole Sadeas murder plot really fizzled. I didn't mind too much, because there was so much else going on, but given that it was THE cliffhanger to end WoR, I thought it deserved more fallout for Adolin than simply some guilty hand wringing for a few weeks. 

This is where it hurts the most: it was THE cliff-hanger and it turned being nothing. Now I cannot bring myself to think Brandon will add to this narrative. 

[Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker he/him]

Dalinar telling him the truth of how his mom died would definitely break him.

[PrincessMorpheus she/her]

Yeah I believe that's going to happen

[digitalbusker he/him]

I'm not convinced that Adolin would have flat out refused the throne had he not already come to terms with not being the man his father thinks he is.

And the amount of debate over a supposedly straightforward character doesn't have to mean anything other than "fans can be cray".

[Govir]

On 12/22/2017 at 0:12 PM, Lord Mistborn Skybreaker said:

Dalinar telling him the truth of how his mom died would definitely break him.

It may be a blow to Adolin, and it may shake him for a bit, but I don't think it will break him permanently. In the end, Evi's death was an unfortunate accident and I think Adolin would see it as such eventually.

[CrazyRioter she/her]

I think you might be underestimating the impact learning that one of your parents killed the other, even accidentally, would have.

[Elerubard]

On 12/17/2017 at 8:41 AM, maxal said:

This has become a popular theory. Because Adolin isn't written as if he were broken, because the main narrative doesn't convey the idea Adolin is broken, readers have started to argue the bond may work reversely. In other words, Adolin may heal Maya by not being broken... being being so nice he nurses her back to life.

I will personally stand very strongly against this idea as I feel nothing would be worst for the story for Adolin to revive his Blade by not suffering, by not breaking and by genuinely being so amazing he just spontaneously does the impossible. As he was written in OB, Adolin already appears too perfect to be true: he never does a mistake, never says the wrong thing, never falls short of knowing what to do, never is affected by the evens, never falters. If Adolin has a character flaw, then it is not visible within OB. Prior to OB's release, we could have said he has issues with relationships, but this was glossed over in OB, the character gets resolution without needing to look into himself to assess his own faults. We could have also said Adolin murdering Sadeas implied either a lack of control or a too strong pressure being put on him or hint towards a conflict in between himself and his father, but this too was glossed over in OB. Nobody cares Adolin murdered Sadeas, including himself: he essentially ends the book having gotten the butter and the money to buy the butter.

Adolin, as he stands by the end of OB, is a character without flaws. His only, only visible flaw would be "he is too nice", too nice with his father whom was abusing towards him and his brother as a teenagers (and childhood for Renarin). Hence, if Adolin turns out "saving Maya" by virtue of being "so nice" it just "works", then I personally feel it would be a great disservice to the character and to the story. It is also dangerously close to the Mary Sue character, this seemingly perfect character who's only flaw is something benign such "oups I am clumsy". 

So while I understand the plea for Adolin not to become a Radiant and the plea for Adolin to never break, I personally find characters without a flaw aren't interesting to read and usually turned out being either boring, simplistic or one-dimensional. Adolin is very close to being each one of those things, after OB, especially considering how Brandon shoehorned him into a position where he is unlikely to get any character growth, where he has 99% of chances to face further into the background.

In a general manner, I tend to agree with @Calderis in saying the fact Maya has started to wake-up is a sign of a Nahel Bond having started to form, even if it may be a weaker Nahel Bond then the ones we have seen. I will however argue the story doesn't write Adolin's character convincingly enough to make the readers believe this is an interesting path for him. He is too perfect, nor flawed enough and seems to have an infinite ability to cope. Also, he doesn't really have the page time to be really fleshed out as a character and suffers from the author wanting him to be the "steady normal guy" despite the heart-breaking backstory he got.

All in all, things bode very badly for Adolin's character, within the future of SA, but I will keep on arguing having him succeed with Maya being "not being broken" would make it worst.

To be fair, he may be acting perfect in OB because he’s trying to throw off possible suspicion.

[Govir]

1 hour ago, CrazyRioter said:

I think you might be underestimating the impact learning that one of your parents killed the other, even accidentally, would have.

You're right. I may be. But given what we know about the situation, it was a true accident. If I'm remembering correctly, no one knew that Evi had went to the city to try and plead for them to surrender, no one knew she was captured, and no one (in Dalinar's army) knew that the cavern was converted into a prison. That's why I say that it may be a heavy blow to Adolin when he first finds out about it (because it is shocking), but I don't think it will take him long to recover from it. It will probably always hurt, but it won't break him. If it does, then finding out Shallan killed *both* of her parents, intentionally, should do just as much harm to their relationship (i.e. break it), even though both were in self-defense. I don't see that happening.

[CrazyRioter she/her]

I don't think "broken" has to mean "shattered", it just means damaged, and I definitely think it would be damaging for him to find out.

[Alderant she/her]

On 12/22/2017 at 0:12 PM, Lord Mistborn Skybreaker said:

Dalinar telling him the truth of how his mom died would definitely break him.

I doubt this will actually happen, considering Dalinar just finished a book that details that very fact, without telling his son first.

On 12/18/2017 at 7:30 PM, maxal said:

I also personally think viewpoints onto a static character are, on average, wasted because readers will always expect a viewpoint character to have a story, an arc, to grow. A viewpoint character should never remain static. Ron is not a viewpoint character, Harry is and, as such, Ron is allowed to the "comical-relief", though he arguably ends up getting growth as the story moves forward.

I agree somewhat, but comparing something like SA or WoT to Harry Potter is very much comparing apples to oranges. Harry Potter has a very small cast that is written entirely from the viewpoint of one character. There are only a handful of significant characters, and since the entirety of the series is written from one viewpoint, there isn't any need for outside views on the situations, characters, or events. Harry Potter is not about Hermione, Ron, or anyone else--it is about Harry Potter.

Epic fantasy, however, is known for its large cast of characters. It's known for plots that involve entire continents and nations. So it is frequent to use alternative viewpoints on a semi-static character as a way of demonstrating aspects of other characters or situations from another viewpoint that is not the main characters'. With such a large cast of characters, the story is not about simply one person, it's about a group of people, as well as the situations and conflicts that swirl around them.

Unfortunately, what Adolin's character seems to be is that he is a viewpoint for us to learn plot points and character perceptions through. In WoK most of his viewpoints are Dalinar-centric. We get insights to him as a character, but he is used primarily as a tool to help us understand Dalinar from an outsider's perspective. In WoR he began to take on his own presence, though there were several scenes from his viewpoint that were Dalinar-centric as well as a few that were Shallan-centric. In OB, most of his scenes are Shallan-centric. This is also why we see very little development on his character--because he exists, as Brandon states, primarily as a device to further the plots that are occurring in the world and with the characters around him.

The Sadeas plot didn't ultimately matter because it was a segue for two plot points: the battle of Thaylen Field and the appearance of Re-Shephir.

I think this is primarily what is so frustrating about his character. We all want him to be a main character, but in Brandon's mind, he is not. He is a side character. Which is why I believe as the plot stands now, we have more to gain by losing him than by having him continue in a convoluted plot to resurrect a dead spren. His continued existence will probably be more of the same, but his absence will affect the main characters profoundly. But that last part's just my own thoughts on the matter.

[Govir]

2 hours ago, CrazyRioter said:

I don't think "broken" has to mean "shattered", it just means damaged, and I definitely think it would be damaging for him to find out.

Ah, sounds like we have different meanings of broken then. I was definitely taking it to mean, give up / turn his back on Dalinar.

I agree that it'll damage their relationship, but I do not think that in the long run it will be a big deal to Adolin. Specifically because of *how* it happened. Dalinar did not directly kill his wife. It was truly an unfortunate accident. Dalinar blames himself, and may not have forgiven himself for it, but Adolin has his mother's kindness in him too and I fully expect Adolin would either not blame or at least forgive his father. I expect there to be a bit of a drag out, similar to Elokhar's death (i.e. initially it will be super painful, and Adolin will storm out), but that eventually Adolin will think it over and come to the conclusion that it was a tragic accident.

If it had been something like Evi was trying to stand in front of Dalinar to prevent him from attacking the town and he intentionally (albeit full of the Thrill) cut her down, *that* would be irreparable.

1 hour ago, Alderant said:

I doubt this will actually happen, considering Dalinar just finished a book that details that very fact, without telling his son first.

Did he actually finish it? I know we have the snippets of the prologue in Part 1, but I was under the impression that he was just starting it / just learning to write at the end of Oathbringer and that the in-world Oathbringer had yet to be written.

[Alderant she/her]

@Govir

I believe he finished it at the very end of Oathbringer--though I've only read the book once and was quite tired by the time I got to the end of it. The last few scenes of him (to my memory) were him writing the book itself, and he gave it the title at the end of the book. Someone else with the book on hand might be able to get you the exact text, but I only have the audiobook, so it would take me a while to find that spot and transcribe it out.

[Calderis he/him]

@Govir in my memory, he had just finished writing the preface, the parts that we read in part one. The actual book had yet to be written. 

[MonsterMetroid]

Ooooh this coincides with one of my favorite WoBs:

source

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

How was Shallan able to bond with Pattern before she was broken?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

She was open to him even before she went through a lot of that turmoil

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

I thought everybody had to be broken in order to--

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Well, that's their philosophy in-world. But I'm not going to say whether it's correct or wrong. I will imply that there are other means as well.

This to me says that you don't need to be broken, you just need to be "open" for the nahel bound. Adolin has viewed himself with that blade so long and treated it as an extension of himself that I don't believe he will need to be "broken". 

[Govir]

30 minutes ago, MonsterMetroid said:

This to me says that you don't need to be broken, you just need to be "open" for the nahel bound. Adolin has viewed himself with that blade so long and treated it as an extension of himself that I don't believe he will need to be "broken". 

Sorry for the double post, but this came in while I was responding to others.

I agree. I'm remembering a WoB that said a lot of the magic requires an "expanding" of the soul / spirit web, and that the easiest way (and therefore most common way) to do that is to be beaten down and recover. I can't find that WoB though

@Alderant

@Calderis

Ok, I just looked it up in my copy. He just finished rewriting the opening of the preface (with a bunch that's actually before the first epigraph). It stops with "I need to write it anyway." He then grabs a new sheet of paper and writes down a title for the book. (This is on about page 1227, according to my Kindle copy).

I do think that Dalinar will tell multiple people about Evi's death prior to writing it down in the book (which I also think he'll do, even if we never see another page of the book). Specifically, Navani, Adolin and Rennarin (maybe lumping Shallan in with this group because marriage, otherwise she's lower on the list), Jasnah, and the other "main" Knight Radiants (Kaladin, Shallan, maybe Szeth. But not Lift). I'm probably forgetting someone.