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[OB] [Elantris] Did Hoid use Sel Magic?


teknopathetic

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Its not commmonly known, but we have a WOB that the potion used to fake being turned into an Elantrian was actually invested. There is a magic system on Sel that lets people created invested drinks (thats all we know) 

At the end of Oathbringer, Hoid drinks a potion that makes his hair fall out. This could just be a potion, but knowing Hoid it is more likely that he has Potion Forging or whatever that magic is. 

This would mean that he has found a way to use Sel Magic away from Sel, or that the potions are unique in being useable elsewhere in the Cosmere. 

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2 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

This would mean that he has found a way to use Sel Magic away from Sel, or that the potions are unique in being useable elsewhere in the Cosmere. 

Well, he does have the Moon Scepter. I suspect it, along with Connection and Identity manipulation could allow you to use Selish magic outside of the region if you knew what you were doing.

Quote
Shadows of Self London UK signing (Oct. 19, 2015)

Questioner

How exactly is the Moon Scepter linked to the Dor?

Brandon Sanderson

The Moon Scepter is...I suppose I can canonize this, now. Okay you’re getting one out of me. So the big thing about the Moon Scepter that it was...it is a Rosetta stone for the Selian magics. Meaning it translates them from one to another, and what the different symbols mean, does that make sense.


 

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  • Pagerunner changed the title to [OB] [Elantris] Did Hoid use Sel Magic?

In the epilogue in the extended edition, he appears and is apparently surprised that his plans to turn himself into an Elantrian didn't work. But what with the white hair comments from people looking for him in Way of Kings, he seems to have gotten there eventually.

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1 minute ago, Bacon said:

In the epilogue in the extended edition, he appears and is apparently surprised that his plans to turn himself into an Elantrian didn't work. But what with the white hair comments from people looking for him in Way of Kings, he seems to have gotten there eventually.

I thought white hair might just be a Yolish theme, or perhaps a sign of heavy investiture.  I want to say Rayse's avatar and Tanavast's avatar both have white hair in Dalinar's visions.

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4 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

I thought white hair might just be a Yolish theme, or perhaps a sign of heavy investiture.  I want to say Rayse's avatar and Tanavast's avatar both have white hair in Dalinar's visions.

I don't think it's that. At the end of Hero of Ages, I distinctly remember Ati being a red-head

And I could be wrong about this, but I don't believe Vasher's hair turned white at the end of Warbreaker and at that point, he was about as heavily invested as anyone has gotten in a book.

Edited by Bacon
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12 minutes ago, Bacon said:

I don't think it's that. At the end of Hero of Ages, I distinctly remember Ati being a red-head

And I could be wrong about this, but I don't believe Vasher's hair turned white at the end of Warbreaker and at that point, he was about as heavily invested as anyone has gotten in a book.

What makes you think Vasher was the most heavily invested we've seen a character in a book? The God King had far more breath than Vasher did in the same book, and excluding characters taking up shards, I'd say Wax using the Bands of Mourning is highest investiture since he was using so much Allomancy and Feruchemy he literally had mist pumping out of him.

Edited by Fakeout
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3 minutes ago, Fakeout said:

What makes you think Vasher was the most heavily invested we've seen a character in a book? The God King had far more breath than Vasher did in the same book, and excluding characters taking up shards, I'd say Wax using the Bands of Mourning is highest investiture since he was using so much Allomancy and Feruchemy he literally had mist pumping out of him.

The God King gave Vasher all his breath. He got all buff and god-like but no mention of his hair going white.

I thought of Wax, but I think the life force from 50,000+ people beats what he was holding. But that's another example of a lot of investiture. No white hair there either.

Edited by Bacon
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6 minutes ago, Bacon said:

The God King gave Vasher all his breath. He got all buff and god-like but no mention of his hair going white.

No, he didn't. Vasher simply stops suppressing his Divine Breath and reverts to his Returned body. His hair doesn't change colors. Also Susebron had jet black hair while holding all of the Breaths. I highly doubt White hair has to do with Investiture amount. More likely White hair is a trait of Yolish Humans. I believe that you are thinking of Denth's hair shifting through several colors as he dies and ending on White. This I suspect is actually just because he is a very old man and in his death fits he could no longer maintain the control over his Royal Locks.

Edited by The Sovereign
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1 minute ago, The Sovereign said:

No, he didn't. Vasher simply stops suppressing his Divine Breath and reverts to his Returned body. Also Susebron had jet black hair while holding all of the Breaths. I highly doubt White hair has to do with Investiture amount. More likely White hair is a trait of Yolish Humans. I believe that you are thinking of Denth's hair shifting through several colors as he dies and ending on White. This I suspect is actually just because he is a very old man and in his death fits he could no longer maintain the control over his Royal Locks.

hm...maybe I'm misremembering that. It's been a while since I read it, but I thought that's how he got Kalad's Phantoms to go after the army of lifeless after Lightsong healed Susebron's tongue.

But I was arguing against the idea of hair color being affected by investiture amount, not the other way around. Ati still keeps me from thinking it's a Yolish thing

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16 minutes ago, Bacon said:

hm...maybe I'm misremembering that. It's been a while since I read it, but I thought that's how he got Kalad's Phantoms to go after the army of lifeless after Lightsong healed Susebron's tongue.

But I was arguing against the idea of hair color being affected by investiture amount, not the other way around. Ati still keeps me from thinking it's a Yolish thing

Vasher gives Susebron the command phrase "My sin be hidden". Susebron controlls the Phantoms. As for the hair color thing, I suspect it is a Yolish trait but not necessarily something that "breeds true" like the Alethi black hair, just a possibiltiy. On the topic of Yolish people that do not have white hair Cultivation and Leras (Preservation) do not either.

Edited by The Sovereign
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Hoids hair is naturally white, and I believe it is a Yolish thing, but i think it's kind of like our world, where not everyone has the same color hair. So it could makes sense that Ati, Hoid, Rayse, and Tanavast would have different colored hair

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5 hours ago, Bacon said:

hm...maybe I'm misremembering that. It's been a while since I read it, but I thought that's how he got Kalad's Phantoms to go after the army of lifeless after Lightsong healed Susebron's tongue.

But I was arguing against the idea of hair color being affected by investiture amount, not the other way around. Ati still keeps me from thinking it's a Yolish thing

Yeah I did think about that afterwards, large investiture amounts causes things like color refraction on Nalthis or mist on Scadrial, and no white hair.

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