[OB] Could Pattern be the child?

[A Dopey Spren he/him]

Hello,

So I'm curious to know if you guys have any theories or links regarding this. Please correct me if I'm wrong! (A lot was happening in the book and I may have missed bits!) In chapter 84 - "The One You Can Save", there is some dialogue between Sja-anat and Shallan:

We were made, then unmade, she agreed. But no, not an enemy! The figure turned humanlike again, though the eyes remained glowing white. It pressed its hands against the glass. Ask my son. Please.

Now is it possible that Sja-anat is Pattern's mother, similar to how the Stormfather is Syl's father? I personally don't see how that's possible, but Sja-anat saying "ask my son", sounds as if she is assuming that Shallan knows who Sja-anat could be relating to. 

Also the fact that Sja-anat is known as the Taker of Secrets, and Pattern and Shallan's bond grows stronger when she admits certain deep truths regarding herself (such as killing her mother). Sja-anat can also change her appearance, thus looking like someone else. (Pattern is constantly shifting between different appearances).

The origin of the other spren associated to the Knights Radiant has never been fully clarified (as far as I know), could it be possible that the remaining nine spren types are associated to the nine Unmade, but before they became the Unmade? (This does clash with the idea that some of the spren are from Cultivation, and the fact that is a definite stretch, so I'm just throwing ideas out there!)

Best,

A Dopey Spren

 

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by A Dopey Spren

[Guest]

Nah, Glys. Renarin's spren.

Edited December 1, 2017 by SLNC

[A Dopey Spren he/him]

Hmm... That is a valid point... Didn't even cross my mind!

 

[RShara she/her]

Yeah, we know what Cryptics look like and Pattern matches them.  Also, Pattern remembers where he's from, who made him, etc.

[A Dopey Spren he/him]

I know that Pattern is a Cryptic, I just meant whether all Cryptics derive from Sja-anat. Does Pattern say who made him?

[Noblehunter]

It could be that Cryptics derive from whatever Sja-anat was before she was Unmade. In the same way, the Midnight Mother might have been the progenitor of creation Spren?

[Wandering Investor]

I think its likely she was referring to Glys in this instance. That said, the idea of the Unmade being the parents of the higher spren, prior to be unmade, is an interesting idea. I think its unlikely, but interesting.

[A Dopey Spren he/him]

14 minutes ago, Noblehunter said:

It could be that Cryptics derive from whatever Sja-anat was before she was Unmade. In the same way, the Midnight Mother might have been the progenitor of creation Spren?

That's the idea I had, that the Cryptics (and other Spren related to the radiants) derive from the Unmade. (Aside from Honorspren which are from the Stormfather) (Stormfather + 9 Unmade make the 10 orders). (I don't think this is necessarily the case, just an interesting concept.)

6 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

I think its likely she was referring to Glys in this instance. That said, the idea of the Unmade being the parents of the higher spren, prior to be unmade, is an interesting idea. I think its unlikely, but interesting.

I forgot about Glys, I do see now how she could definitely be talking about him. I was just curious to see whether there was any more information regarding the Unamde, their origin, the higher spren's origin, etc.

Edited December 1, 2017 by A Dopey Spren

[Lord Spiral]

From what was said Shadesmar, current Honorspren are created by existing Honorspren. It is possible the other higher Spren do the same. With the possible exception of the more Cultivation dependent Spren, which may be made by her or her shadow.

[A Dopey Spren he/him]

1 hour ago, Lord Spiral said:

From what was said Shadesmar, current Honorspren are created by existing Honorspren. It is possible the other higher Spren do the same. With the possible exception of the more Cultivation dependent Spren, which may be made by her or her shadow.

Is it definite that the Honorspren themselves procreate? (This was when Nomund was speaking on the ship, right? Don't fully remember what he said. I think I recall someone saying it takes a long time to create new Honourspren.) 

I know that Syl and some others are of the  Stormfather, and Honour also created Honorspren. 

[Noblehunter]

Notum said his great-grandmother created his grandfather, who created his father who created him.

His great-grandmother was one of the 10 Honorspren the Stormfather created after the Recreance and (except for Syl) all living Honorspren can trace their ancestry to those 10. All the rest died when the Knights Radiant broke their oaths.

[Farnsworth]

I’m going with Glys to. The Stormfather called Syl his daughter, so the whole parent thing is mostly semantics among spren.