mistborn era 2 spoilers [OB][Mistborn] The Red Rift, Trell, and the Shard behind it all

[WalksIntoMordor]

This is really more a Mistborn and greater cosmere theory; however, it relies partly on material found in Oathbringer, so putting it in here for now.

Before I begin, this has spoilers for Mistborn (specifically Bands of Mourning).  It also draws on Word of Brandon and some material from the various system write-ups in the Arcanum collection.  So, if you try to avoid the spoilers from Brandon's comments, or haven't read Bands of Mourning, please read no further!

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So the red rift we see in Wax's visit to the Cognitive Realm seems to bear a resemblance to another red stellar phenomenon seen on Roshar, Taln's Scar.  For a lot of people, this seems to have ties to Odium, which would make sense - Odium did a lot of travelling, and is a hostile force towards shards.

However, we discovered a few big hints in the book.  Neither is completely iron-clad, but they seem to make sense.

Firstly, Odium himself is connected to Damnation, possibly locked there by the Oathpact.  As Damnation likely is Ashyn Braize in the Roshar system, it seems that Odium hasn't left Roshar in a while.  This doesn't necessarily mean he isn't behind the issues distracting Harmony, since Era 2 takes place after Stormlight 5 (and thus he could get free around then and go exploring elsewhere), but Taln's Scar was already visible prior to this Desolation - if he did cause it, he did so significantly in the past.  Furthermore, though, he is incredibly set on finishing his work on Roshar.  Unless that work appears finished by the end of Book 5, he wouldn't be causing trouble off-world.

Second, Odium's colors are NOT red.  His colors appear to be white and gold mixed.  This also appears to be the color of his god-metal, assuming the dagger at the end is made from it.  This is relevant for a reason: if that white-gold metal is Odium's god-metal (Raysium, we can call it), then a different Shard is behind the Trellium spikes that corrupt the kandra and, presumably, are behind the red-eyed, Set-aligned Faceless Immortals.  Trellium is a silvery metal with rust-like spots on it.

Further, from a Word of Brandon, we find out that red is a color that is associated with one shard co-opting another Shard's investiture.  It's not specifically tied to Odium.  So any shard could be behind red colorations.  This makes sense with the Red-Eyed Faceless Immortals - if they are indeed a type of Kandra, they are a corruption of the Investiture behind them.

So then - who is Trell?

Let's look at some other clues...

The Faceless at the end of Bands seemed to indicate the original plan was to take over Scadrial.  However, it appears as if the plan changed - the advances that the Set discovered convinced the Faceless' superiors that they would be better suited eliminating all life on that "sphere" instead.  Given the word choice of "sphere," that implies the entire planet - which in turn implies that Trell originates off of Scadrial.  This doesn't necessarily mean that the Kandra does, of course - it could be a mistwraith awakened by Trellium rather than a standard blessing, and then possessed of Trell's will - but Trell themself comes from elsewhere in the Cosmere.

Further, this implies Trell is expansionistic.  This is a key implication.  One shard, and only one, seems to have any intent on spreading outwards and taking over other worlds - Autonomy.

But wait - Autonomy's name isn't Trell.  It's Bavadin.  How does that reconcile?

We only know Trell as "Trell" because that is who the deity is associated with.  We don't know if the threatening Trell is in fact the same Trell that inspired Trelagism prior to the Lord Ruler.  It is possible that Trell is just a name coopted by the Shard behind the Faceless and the Set.

Alternatively, it is the same being, under a different identity.  This fits in with things we know about Autonomy still, though.  Brandon has said that, when it comes to Bavadin, gender, race, and general appearance aren't things you can get hung up on - in fact, he flat out says that Bavadin is worshipped under many different names even in the same pantheon.  This provides another issue for Trell being Odium - Odium is egotistical in such a way that I can't see him taking on another name.  He may call himself Rayse or Odium depending on the situation, but nothing we've seen suggests he'd go incognito of his own accord.  Others may mistake him for something else, but if he was involved, his passion would drive him to be recognized as what he was.

Autonomy has multiple personas.  Autonomy doesn't need to care what name they are known by.

This also fits in with something in the Trelagist ideology.  Trelagism teaches that the stars are "the thousand eyes of Trell."  Autonomy has many forms simultaneously, and many identities, unlike any other known Shard.  Further, Autonomy controls many systems.  It's entirely possible that agents of Trell's/Autonomy's, or worldhoppers from that area, arrived in the past of Scadrial and taught that they were Trell's eyes since so many stars belonged to Autonomy - and avatars of autonomy may have been on all of them.

Then there's the Faceless Immortal at the end of Bands.  If indeed it is a Kandra, that would imply that Autonomy knows about the shapeshifting abilities they possess.  Something that would be very handy for a Shard with many personas - a great way to be in more than one place.  Especially if Autonomy is using different personas to possess the kandra in question.  It is possible Autonomy doesn't need this of course; they claim to be raising a new avatar on one of their worlds, so it's possible that the splitting is just an aspect of their power.  Then again, they had to raise up that avatar; perhaps the discovery of the kandra made them eager for the faster way of self-(selves?-) expression.

Again, this is just a theory.  But I thought it seemed like a possibility given the avalanche of clues we've gotten recently.

 

Edited November 30, 2017 by WalksIntoMordor
corrected trellism to trelagism; corrected proposed location of Damnation

[RShara]

11 minutes ago, WalksIntoMordor said:

This also fits in with something in the Trellist ideology.  Trellism teaches that the stars are "the thousand eyes of Trell."  Autonomy has many forms simultaneously, and many identities, unlike any other known Shard.  Further, Autonomy controls many systems.  It's entirely possible that agents of Trell's/Autonomy's, or worldhoppers from that area, arrived in the past of Scadrial and taught that they were Trell's eyes since so many stars belonged to Autonomy - and avatars of autonomy may have been on all of them.

 

I've actually been thinking of making this argument myself   The thousand eyes of Trell and the many pantheons of Autonomy seem to be a very big tie in.

The Red Rift and Taln's Scar are almost certainly the same constellation, and it's Physically visible from both Scadrial and Roshar.

[WalksIntoMordor]

20 minutes ago, RShara said:

I've actually been thinking of making this argument myself   The thousand eyes of Trell and the many pantheons of Autonomy seem to be a very big tie in.

The Red Rift and Taln's Scar are almost certainly the same constellation, and it's Physically visible from both Scadrial and Roshar.

I will admit that there is one flaw in my plan.  Looking at the endpapers of the Cosmere collection, we can see that Taldain is on the other side of both Scadrial and Roshar from the Scar on the map the endpapers show.  This does create a bit of an issue for both being part of Autonomy's dominion.

However, this isn't a fatal flaw, just inconvenient.  For one thing, while the Scar does appear to be opposite Taldain from one perspective, that doesn't mean they aren't on the same plane when distance from the POV is taken into account.  Hell, real world constellations often are made up of stars that are at incredibly different distances from Earth (part of why the sky we see now will eventually not be the same sky the future sees - as we and the stars move about, the patterns will lose cohesion).  We do know that from Scadrial's point of view and Roshar's that the Scar/Rip is relatively cohesive, but we don't know where in the Z axis Taldain is located.  It could be that it is further out from where the endpapers map.

Further, we don't know know that Physical distance really affects Cognitive distance.  We do know that the more cognitive activity there is in an area, the more defined the parallel is in the cognitive realm, and the less activity, the less defined.  This is part of how Worldhopping seems to work - you just have to get far enough away from the cognitive center of a system, and the empty space becomes distanceless (there is a WoB on the lack of Cognitive realm between worlds and systems but I am not able to find it atm).  Thus, Autonomy could be controlling a far vaster empire than they otherwise could, and it could be far more dispersed than we'd assume should be possible.  

Also, Bavadin makes sense as a rival for the rest of the Cosmere given Hoid's letter in WoK.  Odium/Rayse is someone he has a problem with and is trying to deal with on Roshar; it would make some sense for all the rest of the problems to come from the only other Shardbearer he calls out as having a specific grudge with in that letter...

[RShara]

1 minute ago, WalksIntoMordor said:

I will admit that there is one flaw in my plan.  Looking at the endpapers of the Cosmere collection, we can see that Taldain is on the other side of both Scadrial and Roshar from the Scar on the map the endpapers show.  This does create a bit of an issue for both being part of Autonomy's dominion.

However, this isn't a fatal flaw, just inconvenient.  For one thing, while the Scar does appear to be opposite Taldain from one perspective, that doesn't mean they aren't on the same plane when distance from the POV is taken into account.  Hell, real world constellations often are made up of stars that are at incredibly different distances from Earth (part of why the sky we see now will eventually not be the same sky the future sees - as we and the stars move about, the patterns will lose cohesion).  We do know that from Scadrial's point of view and Roshar's that the Scar/Rip is relatively cohesive, but we don't know where in the Z axis Taldain is located.  It could be that it is further out from where the endpapers map.

Further, we don't know know that Physical distance really affects Cognitive distance.  We do know that the more cognitive activity there is in an area, the more defined the parallel is in the cognitive realm, and the less activity, the less defined.  This is part of how Worldhopping seems to work - you just have to get far enough away from the cognitive center of a system, and the empty space becomes distanceless (there is a WoB on the lack of Cognitive realm between worlds and systems but I am not able to find it atm).  Thus, Autonomy could be controlling a far vaster empire than they otherwise could, and it could be far more dispersed than we'd assume should be possible.  

Also, Bavadin makes sense as a rival for the rest of the Cosmere given Hoid's letter in WoK.  Odium/Rayse is someone he has a problem with and is trying to deal with on Roshar; it would make some sense for all the rest of the problems to come from the only other Shardbearer he calls out as having a specific grudge with in that letter...

It could also be that Bavadin's domains aren't necessarily spatially connected.  Maybe once he(they?) have a foothold on a planet, his agents try and get the Physical Realm and people to think of themselves as close enough to one of his existing domains for him to be able to influence it?

[Rainier]

2 hours ago, WalksIntoMordor said:

Trellism teaches that the stars are "the thousand eyes of Trell."  Autonomy has many forms simultaneously, and many identities, unlike any other known Shard. 

This is the best part, which made my eyes bug out. Of course the thousand eyes of Trell belong to the shard that speaks in the plural. And of course there's got to be some shard acting on the same scale as Odium. We've got 10 books and entire Cosmere to fill. We need conflict and strife.

[RShara]

13 minutes ago, Rainier said:

This is the best part, which made my eyes bug out. Of course the thousand eyes of Trell belong to the shard that speaks in the plural. And of course there's got to be some shard acting on the same scale as Odium. We've got 10 books and entire Cosmere to fill. We need conflict and strife.

Exactly!

[CosmereAvair]

This is something I asked at the Ad Astra  signing back in march.

Me: As we are talking about design art I just have a question about the star chart in Arcanum Unbound. Mostly is the Red Star in Threnody connected to the red stars in The scar?

WoB: RAFO!

My theory is that when ambition got wounded in his battle with Odium he turned the star red, we know that ambition is not currently in the Threnody system , and the shard could have left to Taln's scar turning more stars red. I don't know how Ambition is turning the stars red, but I believe he is responsible and is not currently in control of his inveture.

[TheEdgedancer]

One little correction, Braize is Damnation and where Odium is trapped, not Ashyn. Other than that this is a great theory, I hadn't thought of this. Nice work.

[Riceloft]

In the Events section there was a recent WoB that identified what red means in the Cosmere.

 

Spoiler

Q: "Does red in cosmere signify one Shard co-opting or corrupting another Shard's magic?"

A: Yes, and he was rather surprised that I figured it out so soon.

 

 

[WalksIntoMordor]

3 hours ago, TheEdgedancer said:

One little correction, Braize is Damnation and where Odium is trapped, not Ashyn. Other than that this is a great theory, I hadn't thought of this. Nice work.

Ack, you are correct.  I will fix that soon enough.  And thank you to those who like it!  It is a theory, as I have said - it is entirely possible that these things will be disproven eventually (perhaps the Red Rip and the Set's patrons are actually two separate threats, with the Red Rip being a more distant foreshadowing - that would make sense if that was of Odium with him taking a break between Stormlight 5-6).  But, I did want to share it.

[The Invested Beard]

This is a theory that I have been touting for some time. I think as an ultimate "antagonist" for the cosmere story, Bavadin works best because of her intent. I think a big theme Brandon is trying to get across in all the cosmere books is community/trust or coming to a realization that we all need each other and can't isolate ourselves. Bavadin is the exact opposite of this in Intent. Even though she is technically in a community, it's a community of one broken up into a bunch of separate pieces and cannot compare to actual varied and reliant relationships.