[OB] We've seen this spren before

[LordBagel]

After reading the epilogue for oathbreaker I made an interesting connection. I believe that the cryptic that Wit bonded to at the very end of the book was at one point going to bond to Elhokar. After making the connection it seems pretty obvious but at first I didn't think of it so I thought it was worth making a thread anyways.

Why I think Elhokar was sought out by the cryptics

• Elhokar mentioned to Shallan that pattern looked similar to him, which can give the impression he might have seen it before.
• At one point in wordsI believe Elhokar mentioned seeing figures out of the corner of his eye (I think he said it was in a mirror but I can't remember the exact passage" similar to how Shallan saw the cryptics in her drawings in Kharbranth.
• Wit found the spren in Kholinar, considering this is where Elhokar died that points towards the spren originally following Elhokar.

I'm guessing most people probably made the same connection but if for whatever reason you were wondering how wit found a random wild cryptic, those are my thoughts!

[Ironeyes]

Welcome to the Shard! I think you are correct.

[ZenBossanova]

But why were the Voidbringers so intent on finding it, if it was just a random cryptic? There is something more to this. 

[RShara she/her]

Mmmm, you'll want to put [OB] in the Topic title, and make it more generic.  See the spoiler policy at the top.

[Aleksiel]

29 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

But why were the Voidbringers so intent on finding it, if it was just a random cryptic? There is something more to this. 

I'd say they have the determination to tear down a whole palace for any radiantspren:

Quote

“Stay inside,” Venli said to Command. “They’re watching for spren like you. Descriptions of your kind, and others, have been spread all through the city.”

 

[Willow]

40 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

But why were the Voidbringers so intent on finding it, if it was just a random cryptic? There is something more to this. 

I can think of two main things (though there's probably more):
1. They can get information out of it somehow. Especially useful since Cryptics like to be really well informed before they take any action
2. They're going to try and corrupt it like Glys.

The second one only works if Odium still trusts Sja-anat to do his bidding, which I'm not so sure is true. I also don't know if Odium knows about Glys (or if Glys is even 'evil', personally, I like to believe he isn't). There's the possibility Sja-anat did that on her own initiative, but the fact that the Oathgate spren were succesfully corrupted might give Odium ideas.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Willow

[RShara she/her]

It's also possible that one of the Unmade is imprisoned somewhere in the palace, and that's what they're looking for.

[Willow]

6 minutes ago, RShara said:

It's also possible that one of the Unmade is imprisoned somewhere in the palace, and that's what they're looking for.

Another one? Is that from the theory that says Ba-Ado-Mishram is imprisoned beneath Kholinar? Yelig-nar and Ashertmarn were chilling around pretty casually though, as well as Sja-anat. Did none of them, nor the soldiers under Aesudan's control know where to start looking for it with more direction than 'let's break all the walls down'?

[The One Who Connects he/him]

9 minutes ago, Willow said:

Another one? Is that from the theory that says Ba-Ado-Mishram is imprisoned beneath Kholinar? Yelig-nar and Ashertmarn were chilling around pretty casually though, as well as Sja-anat. Did none of them, nor the soldiers under Aesudan's control know where to start looking for it with more direction than 'let's break all the walls down'?

Ashertmarn is a Mindless Unmade, so he'd be excused from not knowing. I don't know enough about Yelig-Nar or his motivations to comment. Sja-Anat can corrupt Oathgate Fabrial Spren, meaning she can probably see Spren in Gems(I don't remember, do we know if Oathgate Fabrials have a Spren trapped in a Gem too?). Mayhaps her apparent disloyalty? Controlled Humans would be limited by their eyes, so a hidden space would still be hidden from them.

I don't know where I stand on any theories at this point, just throwing out ideas

[Willow]

17 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Ashertmarn is a Mindless Unmade, so he'd be excused from not knowing

Yes, but he fled to set a trap for Shallan, so Odium, or another Unmade is probably prodding him in the right direction somehow. I wonder if the Unmade can search through the castle in the Cognitive Realm? That would make searching easier. On one hand, I kind of like the 'there's a secret Unmade trapped beneath Kholinar' theory, on the other I think 'oh there were four Unmade in Kholinar' is a bit much.

[Sigsyl]

11 hours ago, Aleksiel said:

I'd say they have the determination to tear down a whole palace for any radiantspren:

 

But I don’t understand what tearing down the palace would achieve on that front. The Cryptic is in the walls but if they tear it down he’ll just go into the ground, no? Also, could it not just return to shadesmar? There’s quite a lot that doesn’t add up about the Cryptic situation in my opinion. 

Edited November 29, 2017 by Sigsyl

[Aleksiel]

12 minutes ago, Sigsyl said:

But I don’t understand what tearing down the palace would achieve on that front. The Cryptic is in the walls but if they tear it down he’ll just go into the ground, no? Also, could it not just return to shadesmar? There’s quite a lot that doesn’t add up about the Cryptic situation in my opinion. 

Spren don't pass through physical objects, so it can't sink in the stones it if that's what you mean by go into the ground. In my opinion they were destroying all hiding places. Some spren are more into the PR than others. Note Pattern can't hide, for all we know once Elhokar's spren crossed from Shadesmar, it can't return on its own. It's probably too mindless to do much and just goes by instinct. 

[PhineasGage]

2 hours ago, Aleksiel said:

Note Pattern can't hide, for all we know once Elhokar's spren crossed from Shadesmar, it can't return on its own. It's probably too mindless to do much and just goes by instinct. 

This is very important.

Given Elokhar's pretty obvious glowing as he died, it means he definitely had a bond starting. It seems pretty easy to guess that he was only speaking the first Ideal (even if no-one on the VB side technically heard it) because the chances of Elokhar being vulnerable enough to Moash to be killed whilst already bonded are slim if he could glow. That means the spren had made its leap of faith into the physical realm. This means they know it is there and can't just disappear back to Shadesmar (because, as Aleksiel said, it is probably mindless). As they are on the lookout for the higher spren ( as stated by Venli) - no doubt for some nefarious purpose - it makes sense to grab the only one you know must be there.

[Bacon]

That makes a lot of sense. Wit really was in the right place at the right time. Not the least of which because thanks to the oaths required, a lightweaver is the only order he could have joined without severely limiting himself and his plans.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Bacon

[DocHoliday he/him]

I wonder what cracks are in Wit's soul, and what his truths may be.

[Heretic he/him]

4 minutes ago, DocHoliday said:

I wonder what cracks are in Wit's soul, and what his truths may be.

I just hope one of them is how much time he actually spends coming up with insults for the lighteyes.

[RShara she/her]

1 hour ago, DocHoliday said:

I wonder what cracks are in Wit's soul, and what his truths may be.

I'm sure they're immense and broad.  He's got a lot of different kinds of Investiture in him.  Not sure if he even has much of his original soul or Spiritweb left lol

[Rainier]

3 hours ago, DocHoliday said:

I wonder what cracks are in Wit's soul, and what his truths may be.

And you don't wonder the same for Elhokar, the one who attracted that spren in the first place?

I know Hoid has dark secrets in his past, that's the whole point of having a character in the background doing his own thing at crucial moments, pushing the boulder of time ever so slightly.

Elhokar, on the other hand, may have been broken by his father's murder and his own ascension to the throne, or have been broken much earlier, or a million other things. His self-awareness, while never going to be as interesting as Hoid's, was about his return to power and just rule.

In that way, he's like the eponymous Emperor in The Emperor's Soul.

[NDUCSB]

Do you think there’s more to the reason behind not destroying Elhokar’s blood on the ground? Could it have something to do with the Spren? 

[Dryone_2]

On 29.11.2017 at 1:09 AM, RShara said:

It's also possible that one of the Unmade is imprisoned somewhere in the palace, and that's what they're looking for.

I think the Unmade were freed, but their prisons, 3-4 perfect gems, might be still inside. 

[DSC01 he/him]

I'm not convinced that Hoid grabbed that spren for himself. It almost doesn't make sense for it to be otherwise, given that he snatched up that bead of lerasium with no qualms whatsoever about--what? 300 years prior to this? It seems like collecting a radiantspren is just something that he would do.

But I don't know. We never know how invested Hoid is in what is going on around him because he's been alive for so long. When you've seen whole worlds rise and fall, the apocalypse doesn't affect the way it everyone else. It's just that Elhokar's arc was almost disappointing until his spren turns up at the end, meaning that now it wasn't all for nothing. It seems like that Cryptic could be meant to play a role in this story still.

Probably not, though. This is probably just an account of how Hoid collected another couple of powers and someone to keep him company consistently on all of his crazy journeys.