Noblehunter Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 There may be a difference in 1000 unrecoverable breaths and someone just holding on to 1000.
The One Who Connects he/him Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, RShara said: Ah, thanks. I thought Nightblood would have predated the Radiants, since they created him so long ago. Warbreaker happens after Hero of Ages, and Alloy of Law takes place after Stormlight 5. AoL is only 341 years after HoA, meaning that there is a maximum of ~300 years from WB to SA. Nightblood was made during the Manywar, 300 years prior to the story of WB. Nightblood was only created roughly 600 years before modern Stormlight Archives takes place. Nightblood would have been made about a century after the Hierocracy, which is nearly 1.5 millennia after the Recreance. Which is nearly 2.5 millennia after the Heralds retired during Aharietiam, which is etc... Were Stormlight happening right now, Nightblood would have been created during the reign of Henry V of England. All things considered, that's not that long ago. Edited November 28, 2017 by The One Who Connects clearer words for "roughly" 3
RShara she/her Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 13 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said: Warbreaker happens after Hero of Ages, and Alloy of Law takes place after Stormlight 5. AoL is only 341 years after HoA, meaning that there is a maximum of ~300 years from WB to SA. Nightblood was made during the Manywar, 300 years prior to the story of WB. Nightblood was only created roughly 600 years before modern Stormlight Archives takes place. Nightblood would have been made about a century after the Hierocracy, which is nearly 1.5 millennia after the Recreance. Which is nearly 2.5 millennia after the Heralds retired during Aharietiam, which is etc... Were Stormlight happening right now, Nightblood would have been created during the reign of Henry V of England. All things considered, that's not that long ago. Thank you for making that timeline clear. For some reason, I thought Nightblood predated the Manywar.
ZenBossanova Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, RShara said: Thank you for making that timeline clear. For some reason, I thought Nightblood predated the Manywar. I rather suspect that Nightblood had something to do with that war starting in the first place. Just a suspicion. 1
The One Who Connects he/him Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, RShara said: Thank you for making that timeline clear. For some reason, I thought Nightblood predated the Manywar. Warbreaker Spoilers Spoiler Nightblood was only used in the Battle of Twilight Falls, which was the last battle of the Manywar. So if he was created prior, he wasn't used at all during the majority of it(several kingdoms were destroyed during this war. I find it hard to think a "destroy evil" weapon would not be used if available). Prior to the war, the Five Scholars ushered in a golden age of knowledge, but they split among the factions when the Manywar started. I'd say Nightblood was created during, so that it's more feasible for Vasher to think nobody else knew how to make it but him and Shashara. Nightblood remembers things from the early hours of his creation. Shashara being alive, Denth being pleased with him, etc.. Denth joined up with Vasher and Co. during the war, so he couldn't have been made during the early part of the war since Denth was elsewhere trying to broker peace. Nightblood also doesn't mention Arsteel and Yesteel, which might be the telling clue, since they went to support other kingdoms during the war and haven't shown up until very recently. 1 hour ago, ZenBossanova said: I rather suspect that Nightblood had something to do with that war starting in the first place. Just a suspicion. The reasoning for the Manywar is pretty well spelled out already. Warbreaker Spoilers Spoiler Quote Roots of the Conflict The Tears of Edgli The Tears of Edgli had made Hanald an economic powerhouse. The dyes that they produced were vibrant and prized throughout Nalthis. However, the Tears could only grow in Hanald's climate. Other nations were jealous and wished to take control of Hanald so they could profit from the dyes. Awakening Developments The process of Awakening Lifeless had already been developed before the Manywar. However, the Commands that had been known previously required fifty Breaths to create a single Lifeless. This arrested the ability for large amounts of Lifeless troops to be used in combat, it was simply too costly. However, one of the Five Scholars, Shashara, was spurred by Yesteel's development of ichor-alcohol into making a new discovery. She invented a Command that allowed for the creation of a Lifeless with a single Breath. Together these discoveries allowed rulers to effectively double the size of their armies; along with the fact that the new troops did not eat, take pay, or feel pain and fear. Larger standing armies could be created. This made the Manywar the first conflict on Nalthis to utilize Lifeless in great numbers. Powerful Awakeners and siege engines such as ropes Awakened to throw boulders would also be used in combat. The power disparity between those with the new Lifeless Command and those without was another cause of the Manywar. New Commands were also being discovered rapidly, a golden age of Awakening took place, due in part to the Five Scholars. These new discoveries helped further learning and knowledge, but they also provided dangerous weapons. The House of Idris, ruling family of Hanald, were particularly interested in Awakening, and gained powerful Awakeners and Lifeless. The Returned's Prophecy At that point, one of the Returned had a vision of war. This ended up being the catalyst for the war, it prompted Vasher, called Strifelover, to preemptively strike against the other nations before they attacked him. Tensions started from mercantile disputes since Hanald had a monopoly on Tears of Edgli. Then, the discovery of the single-Breath Lifeless Command allowed rulers who had this knowledge to double their armies, and left those without it in the dust, which created power disparity and fear to raise tensions even further. Then Vasher(most likely) has a vision of war, and decides to prevent the chaos he sees by starting the war on his own terms. He turns to the leaders of the House of Idris, and in their bloodthirst, they grant him the rank of general, and the rest is history. This all comes from Hoid's story, which Brandon has said is largely correct. Edited November 28, 2017 by The One Who Connects Spoilers tags (it was a textwall too, so bonus condensing) 1
Noblehunter Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 From what we hear from Vasher, Nightblood essentially ended the Manywar by being so terrible Vasher decided to sue for peace.
RShara she/her Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 Yeah I rechecked Warbreaker. Looks like Shashara created Nightblood just after 'Steel (I can't keep them straight) invented ichor-alcohol.
ZenBossanova Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 Thanks for clarifying, One Who Connects. Considering Vasher's attitude about Nightblood, I am surprised to see Vivenna with Nightblood 2.0
The One Who Connects he/him Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said: Considering Vasher's attitude about Nightblood, I am surprised to see Vivenna with Nightblood 2.0 It's not like he can really destroy Nightblood with anything to get rid of it now can he? All it takes is for a second one to have already been created, and then somebody's gotta take care of it.
echaozh he/him Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 13 hours ago, ScavellTane said: Was Nightblood based on a Radiant blade or a dead blade? Would that have an affect? Since he talks, I guess, a Radiant one?
echaozh he/him Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 (edited) Sorry for the repost Edited November 29, 2017 by echaozh repost
echaozh he/him Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 18 hours ago, Ookla, the Incalculable said: The issue with this, is that according to Vasher, Nightblood has been wrong since the beginning, and what he is shouldn't have been possible with only a thousand breaths. There's no evidence either way on if the breaths add to his strength or not. I'm personally of the opinion that they don't and there was something else involved in his creation that Vasher and Shashara were unaware of. Until we learn more about Nightblood, this is one of those things we don't have the ability to answer. Perhaps it's something related to hemalurgy? He keeps some of the investiture and slowly leaks some just like a hemalurgical spike.
Exalted Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 (edited) Quote "The longer Vasher held the sword, the faster it drained his breath." From p. 622 of the mass-market paperback Warbreaker Edited November 29, 2017 by Exalted Dungeon Master 2
Salkara Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 Thought I'd throw this one in here. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/35-arcanum-unbounded-hoboken-signing/#e4067 Quote yulerule *Written:* A thousand breaths doesn't seem to be that much--the God King has tens of thousands. Would a piece of stone, wood, cloth, or plain metal that has a thousand breaths be as Invested as Nightblood, or is there something more? Brandon Sanderson No, it needs more. Needs more. *Writes:* Needs more. So, it may have taken 1,000 Breaths to Awaken Nightblood, but it's more invested than some other object that had 1,000 Breaths stored in it. Fun thought: If Nightblood had eyes, would they be red? 1
Calderis he/him Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Salkara said: Fun thought: If Nightblood had eyes, would they be red? I have considered this countless times. I always ended up dropping it though, because the Warbreaker annotations said that Yesteel was ready and capable of making more awakened blades... And how could you make more if the process involved another shard? Now that we've seen Azure's "Shardblade" though... It's nothing like Nightblood. And another shard would definitely explain the extra investiture.
Salkara Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 7 hours ago, Ookla, the Incalculable said: Now that we've seen Azure's "Shardblade" though... It's nothing like Nightblood. And another shard would definitely explain the extra investiture. Yeah, Azure's sword and the WoB about needing more than 1,000 Breaths are what led me to the question. Also, the new WoB about red eyes meaning one Shard co-opting or corrupting another Shard's Investiture.
WhiteLeeopard she/her Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 17 hours ago, Salkara said: Thought I'd throw this one in here. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/35-arcanum-unbounded-hoboken-signing/#e4067 So, it may have taken 1,000 Breaths to Awaken Nightblood, but it's more invested than some other object that had 1,000 Breaths stored in it. Fun thought: If Nightblood had eyes, would they be red? I think yes, Nightblood would have red eyes. That wob was amazing. Makes me wonder what Shard corruption is represented by voidbringer, Odium and...what? I assumed voidspren were just Odium spren, but now it seems they may be Cultivation or Honor corrupted spren? And Calderis what did you do to your name? Hard to recognize ^^.
Frogs he/him Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 Here's a theory as to why Nightblood is so invested/messed up maybe. We've got WoB stating that shardblades are actually god metal. (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/35-arcanum-unbounded-hoboken-signing/#e2541). What if Vasher and Shashara knew that and instead of awakening steel, they awakened god metal? Then maybe Azure's blade is just normal awakened steel, and that's part of why they are so different.
Lelouch Vi Britannia Posted December 1, 2017 Posted December 1, 2017 On 11/28/2017 at 3:03 PM, The One Who Connects said: Warbreaker happens after Hero of Ages, and Alloy of Law takes place after Stormlight 5. AoL is only 341 years after HoA, meaning that there is a maximum of ~300 years from WB to SA. Nightblood was made during the Manywar, 300 years prior to the story of WB. Nightblood was only created roughly 600 years before modern Stormlight Archives takes place. Nightblood would have been made about a century after the Hierocracy, which is nearly 1.5 millennia after the Recreance. Which is nearly 2.5 millennia after the Heralds retired during Aharietiam, which is etc... Were Stormlight happening right now, Nightblood would have been created during the reign of Henry V of England. All things considered, that's not that long ago. Particularly considering the fact that SA, in traditional "gigantic fantasy series" fashion, takes place 4000 YEARS after important historical events. It seems the timelines are proportional to the book length.... sort of.
RShara she/her Posted December 1, 2017 Posted December 1, 2017 Didn't someone make a Cosmere Timeline some time ago? Where did that go? It should be pinned!
The One Who Connects he/him Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 On 11/29/2017 at 4:48 PM, Frogs said: What if Vasher and Shashara knew that and instead of awakening steel, they awakened god metal? If by "god metal," you are implying Shardblades, then it's not possible. As mentioned in the Warbreaker Annotations, [Spoiler Character] was fully capable of making a lot more. If they were Shardblades, that would mean Nalthis robbed Roshar of a lot of Recreance Blades at some point, which I just don't buy. If you mean they used Endowment's God Metal, I.. actually might have a WoB against that(surprisingly enough): Quote Gordon Does Endowment have some physical presence in the book similar to Ruin=Atium, etc? Brandon Sanderson Endowment does have such a thing, but it does not appear onscreen in the novel WARBREAKER.
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