(OB) What is Mraizes Game?

[Hiadin Haloun]

12 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I doubt that the Ghostbloods have been trying to save Jasnah, or that they are in total opposition to Odium. Remember what Mraize said about using the forces of the Desolation to gain power? I doubt he will pull a Taravangian and join the dark side, but he is not on the Radiants side.

True.  They probably did not try to save her, but I have a feeling that they would have preferred to collect her rather than kill her.  As to using the desolation to grab power, I thought that was Shallan talking about the ghostbloods, not mraize talking about himself.

[shawnhargreaves]

3 hours ago, KidWayne said:

Aluminum foil hat time!

The Ghostbloods are in possession of (or have a relationship with) some form of Abition's sentient investiture

Tenuous, but intriguing idea!  Take my upvote for creative thinking.

This would certainly fit with things Mraize said to Shallan about them valuing ambition and initiative among those who want to join the order.

[Calthrop]

3 hours ago, emailanimal said:

This misses the whole episode with taking over a ship and attempting to kill Jasnah. I know Mraize explains it away via the "enemy combatant" ruse, but, ahem, no.  

I was just giving my personal opinion on 'worst crap the Ghostbloods have done on screen,' and was mentioning that particular episode because of the bodycount though they're likely pretty close (I'm in the camp that thinks Yalb and some others made it out somehow).  Also, in the case of the driver/parshmen, members directly did the deed, whereas the Tyn situation is more like a hopeful ordered to kill Jasnah who went all Reservoir Dogs on it.  Killing the sailors matches up well, though, I agree, but as much as I love Jasnah someone taking a shot at her doesn't really make my list until I know more about the details of her history w the Ghostbloods.  

I digress, but I do think one of the most interesting things we'll see play out in the books is the concept that the Radiants aren't the absolute greatest moral authority on Roshar, and can be particularly unreliable when they are in morally ambiguous situations (cough Bridge Four minus Skar&Drehy cough cough Kaladin/Elhokar cough).

Edited November 24, 2017 by Calthrop

[geoffw35]

On 11/24/2017 at 5:17 AM, Fifth of Daybreak said:

On 11/24/2017 at 10:37 AM, emailanimal said:

 

On 11/24/2017 at 3:39 AM, ScavellTane said:

Mraize's talk of Heleran and the Skybreakers doesn't seem right. He is the only one that connects those two points. I think his explanation of Heleran is a lie.

Why? It makes perfect sense to me, and it is consistent with everything we know.  Mind you, there are still probably people out there who think Heralan lent his Plate and Blade to someone else and he is in fact out and about... But I never thought it to be a viable theory, so I am happy to take Mraize's explanations at face value.

 

 

Yes, and I'm still one of them. I've said that I think the likelihood of this theory being true is not very high, but I still believe it. Mraize's information is not perfect. He does not seem to know that Nale's attitude has changed following the events in Edgedancer, or at least he chooses not to mention it. He speculates as to why Helaran tried to kill Amaram: sent by Nale or maybe going on his own to prove himself. Mraize seems to accept that it was Helaran. On the other hand, if Helaran is alive and he knows about it, this is something he could, and likely would, hold back as a future "payment" to Shallan for her services. I trust Pattern when he says there are lies in the letter.

The Ghostbloods are a very interesting and mysterious group that we surely will learn more about as the series progresses. 

Edited November 26, 2017 by geoffw35

[emailanimal]

8 hours ago, geoffw35 said:

Mraize's information is not perfect. He does not seem to know that Nale's attitude has changed following the events in Edgedancer,

This is because it is very likely that almost no one except for Nale himself knows it.

 

 

[geoffw35]

On 11/25/2017 at 4:23 PM, emailanimal said:

This is because it is very likely that almost no one except for Nale himself knows it.

 

 

True. Except for Szeth, Lift and perhaps others among his acolytes. I mentioned it because he didn't add anything new and speculates about the fight and the reason Helaran may had been sent. I'm still waiting for more information one way or the other. 

Mraize didn't add anything about the shard blade fight, that is. What he said about Helaran and her mother being, if not members in, at least heavily influenced by the Skybreakers is interesting. That they could so influence her mother as to turn her against a child she loved and want to kill her is frightening, cultic craziness.

Edited November 28, 2017 by geoffw35

[echaozh]

Why the name Ghostblood and why the symbol which looks like 3 shards connected to each other? I think the symbol may specifically refer to the Rosharan system.

Mraize himself behaves exactly like a Thaylen merchant, collecting souvenirs from places he had traveled. I think Rysn did the same. I don't think he is a particularly military person, so he only asked Shallan to do intelligence work.

I think the group's goal is to keep Odium grounded in the Rosharan system, instead of coming out and wreaking havoc everywhere in the cosmere. They may not want to kill off Odium, or to Ascend to be the new Odium, but to contain Him. Kelsier may align to their goal because Odium will be a great threat to his home world.

[Steeldancer]

His game is Tri-D Chess

[emailanimal]

On 11/27/2017 at 4:51 PM, geoffw35 said:

That they could so influence her mother as to turn her against a child she loved and want to kill her is frightening, cultic craziness.

Mother's behavior makes plenty of sense now.  It is sort of weird that all sorts of secret societies descended upon Davar estate and hit more than half of the family members: mom and Heralan to Skybreakers, pops - to Ghostbloods, Shallan herself - well eventually ghostbloods, by way of bonding a cryptic.  We need one of her brothers to join the Diagram, one - Sons of Honor, and one - 17th Shard, and the Davar family  is now a microcosm of Cosmere (microcosmere?)

[splinters]

The combination of the WoB on Kelsier taking over the Ghost bloods and the fact that Kelsier is really full of himself, wants to gain power, and hates those who abuse their power (nobleman) makes me think that the Ghostbloods are potentially about tearing down the powerful in Roshar (lighteyes, shard bearers, etc.) and about taking up as much power for themselves as possible. But maybe they are more ambitious and are aiming at usurping splinters (like the unmade), and maybe even abusive shards (like Odium). Or maybe they just want immortality.

There is also a WOB somewhere about Kelsier being a villian if he were in a different time or place (can’t find it right now). I think that is another clue. I’m not sure I can quite put it all together though. I don’t think we have enough information yet.