[OB] Oath progression

[Seeker861]

We are bound to see some new Oaths in Oathbringer and I wanted to share some of my predictions. Firstly I think Kaladin's 4th Oath will be about leading and he will say it after taking charge of the freed Parshmen he has found. I'd really like to see Shallan say her final Truth and form Shardplate or do something equally awesome but I don't see that happening in this book. We will definitely see Dalinar say at least his 3rd Oath. I hope we get to at least hear what some of Renarin's Oaths are. What are some of your Oath predictions?  

Edited October 6, 2017 by Seeker861

[Watchcry he/him]

I am horrible at oath predictions but I just wanted to make note that I don't think Renarin will reveal his oaths as they are so secret. We will most likely learn them in his flashback chapters for his book tho. 

And to be honest, I'm pretty sure none of them can reveal their oaths to anybody, even to those of their own order if they are at a higher level. 

[Ansalem]

1 minute ago, Watchcry said:

And to be honest, I'm pretty sure none of them can reveal their oaths to anybody, even to those of their own order if they are at a higher level. 

I don't see why not. Just saying them wouldn't do anything.

[TheOneKEA]

I think the fourth oath of the Windrunners is "I will lead only when others cannot." I think Kaladin will learn this lesson from both the freeparsh and from Elhokar in this book.

I think Shallan's third truth will be something to do with an acknowledgement of her mother's fear and hatred of Surgebinding. I think she needs to embrace the reality of her mother's emotions and actions.

I think Dalinar's third oath will be "I will unite only those who wish to be united." I think his character will experience growth in this book as he realizes that he can't unify everyone and can't compel them to be united unless they want to be. If the Bondsmith oaths are tailored to each superspren and Mr. T really is going to become one, it will be interesting to see if he gets stuck on this oath while Dalinar doesn't.

[Watchcry he/him]

Quote

I think Dalinar's third oath will be "I will unite only those who wish to be united."

Isn't his purpose to persuade and urge others through dialogue and reason to be united? I think that will be more his struggle. As we can see, nobody, if left to themselves, will wish to be united unless they have a purpose to be. 

[TheOneKEA]

1 minute ago, Watchcry said:

Isn't his purpose to persuade and urge others through dialogue and reason to be united? I think that will be more his struggle. As we can see, nobody, if left to themselves, will wish to be united unless they have a purpose to be. 

Yes, I believe that's his purpose. But I think he will learn that he can't compel unity by force and can only do it via persuasion. His interactions with Kadash and the ardentia look like the beginnings of this ideal.

[Calderis he/him]

23 minutes ago, TheOneKEA said:

I think Shallan's third truth will be something to do with an acknowledgement of her mother's fear and hatred of Surgebinding. I think she needs to embrace the reality of her mother's emotions and actions.

It will be Shallan's fourth truth next. Her first was "I'm a murderer" 

[Blacksmithki]

39 minutes ago, Calderis said:

It will be Shallan's fourth truth next. Her first was "I'm a murderer" 

Per WoB she is ahead of Kaladin (can't find it on mobile), Kaladin is on his third oath, so including the general oath, she has said four (general, presumably "I'm terrified", "I'm a murderer", and whatever the killed her mother one was)

[Stark he/him]

So far Kaladin's Oaths have involved protection.  I will portect those that cannot protect themselves (Which he will likely do with the newly freed listeners).  I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right.

So I think his next oath will be along the lines of "I will teach others how to protect themselves in my absence"

I also understand that we will here an oath from another Windrunner this book.  I am curious to see how it will differ from Kaladin's, and how it will echo his.

[Watchcry he/him]

8 minutes ago, Blacksmithki said:

Per WoB she is ahead of Kaladin (can't find it on mobile), Kaladin is on his third oath, so including the general oath, she has said four (general, presumably "I'm terrified", "I'm a murderer", and whatever the killed her mother one was)

Including the general oath she would have said 3 truths, right? Putting her at level 4?

[Calderis he/him]

21 minutes ago, Watchcry said:

Including the general oath she would have said 3 truths, right? Putting her at level 4?

Yes. I got confused on wording. The murderer one is second truth, third "level." 

Shallan is at Fourth, and the furthest in progressive that we have confirmed. 

[kari-no-sugata]

Quote

 

TGANCHERO

How many oaths can a Radiant swear?

BRANDON SANDERSON

There is an upper-limit/threshold to the number of oaths a Radiant may make. By the end of WoR, Shallan is a step higher than Kaladin.

 

I can't remember if we ever got confirmation about Shallan's progression since the start of tWoK but I don't believe that the truths she spoke during tWoK countered towards her progression since she did not speak them to Pattern (I think of them as a temporary bond to a different Cryptic). I believe Shallan could have summoned her Shardblade at any time, which she wouldn't have been able to do if she hadn't progressed enough already. In other words, we don't know what Shallan's real 1st and 2nd Truth were (though it's also possible that Lightweavers do not have a fixed number of Truths)

[OrangeJedi he/him]

I think that as with his "I will protect those who can not protect themselves" and "I will protect those I hate, so long as it is right" (I wrote both of those from memory so I hope I got them right) the next oath will deal with something Kaladin has a problem with. So I personally think that Kaladin's next oath will be something like "I will let other people protect when I cannot", he seems to have an issue with thinking he is the only one capable of protecting other people.

As for any other oaths, I have no idea what they could be.

[Ansalem]

44 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

I can't remember if we ever got confirmation about Shallan's progression since the start of tWoK but I don't believe that the truths she spoke during tWoK countered towards her progression since she did not speak them to Pattern (I think of them as a temporary bond to a different Cryptic). I believe Shallan could have summoned her Shardblade at any time, which she wouldn't have been able to do if she hadn't progressed enough already. In other words, we don't know what Shallan's real 1st and 2nd Truth were (though it's also possible that Lightweavers do not have a fixed number of Truths)

Shallan had her Shardblade since the beginning of WoK. Or at least she thought she did. She never actually summoned it until WoR, but she considered it to be available before she said any truths on screen.

[Blacksmithki]

@kari-no-sugata

i remember seeing a WoB that Shallen would not have been able to  soulcast in tWoK had she not tried to summon pattern, so that implies regression, it may be that she did actually have to restate her truths.

[Blacksmithki]

25 minutes ago, Ansalem said:

Shallan had her Shardblade since the beginning of WoK. Or at least she thought she did. She never actually summoned it until WoR, but she considered it to be available before she said any truths on screen.

I could have sworn she summoned it in her room while panicking before accidentally soulcasting 

 

Edit: never mind she didn't, but she did properly begin to summon it, so we can reasonably say that she did actually have it.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Blacksmithki

[Wreith he/him]

26 minutes ago, Blacksmithki said:

@kari-no-sugata

i remember seeing a WoB that Shallen would not have been able to  soulcast in tWoK had she not tried to summon pattern, so that implies regression, it may be that she did actually have to restate her truths.

There's also a WoB that specifies "Most" of the Orders had to say three oaths to get to the blade wielding stage.

It's possible Lightweavers weren't in that category, so her having Pattern isn't necessarily indicative of the number of oaths she's spoken. 

edit: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1115#48

Edited October 6, 2017 by Wreith
WoB

[Watchcry he/him]

2 minutes ago, Wreith said:

There's also a WoB that specifies "Most" of the Orders had to say three oaths to get to the blade wielding stage.

It's possible Lightweavers weren't in that category, so her having Pattern isn't necessarily indicative of the number of oaths she's spoken. 

"Most" is right. Lift summoned Wyndle directly BEFORE saying her third Oath to block Darkness' attack. 

[Wreith he/him]

5 minutes ago, Watchcry said:

"Most" is right. Lift summoned Wyndle directly BEFORE saying her third Oath to block Darkness' attack. 

This is discussed here:

An opinion is given that Lift has already accepted the oath (as she claims) and that saying it is just a formality.

[Watchcry he/him]

1 minute ago, Wreith said:

This is discussed here:

An opinion is given that Lift has already accepted the oath (as she claims) and that saying it is just a formality.

I remembered that. I was the OP

[Wreith he/him]

Just now, Watchcry said:

I remembered that. I was the OP

haha, yeah I realized after I posted

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

My impression is, for the Orders that actually say Oaths, the 2nd and 4th represent the core ideas behind their respective primary and secondary attributes, whereas the 3rd and 5th refine the attributes (as seen so far with Kaladin and Lift). In the Lightweavers case, I would argue that a similar system is in place, but either 2+3/2+4 are Illuminating truths and 4+5/3+5 are Transforming truths.

So drawing from that, Dalinar's 3rd would involve possibly uniting even when others refuse or circumstances won't allow it. "I will unite men together even when the odds are against me" or something

Edited October 7, 2017 by ParadoxicalZen

[Salkara]

On 10/6/2017 at 9:34 AM, Stark said:

I also understand that we will here an oath from another Windrunner this book.

Did you have a source on this? It sounds cool, and I'm always looking for something to get hyped about .

[Calderis he/him]

2 hours ago, Salkara said:

Did you have a source on this? It sounds cool, and I'm always looking for something to get hyped about .

The quote says that we will see another Windrunner speak the Oaths, which will demonstrate that the wording is not exact, but will convey the same meaning. 

It does not in any way specify that it will happen in Oathbringer, just eventually. 

[+Wax he/him]

Well, the WoR epigraphs suggested as many as 16 windrunners in the past, so 1 more is entirely possible.