[OB] Adolin's Fate in Oathbringer and beyond. A poll.

[+eveorjoy she/her]

What do you want to happen to Adolin. I want him to remain a relevant character in the story. I don't like the idea of everything going great for him and him just being a highprince happily married to Shallan. That would be boring. Want him to face consequences for killing Sadeas both good and bad. I want him to be exiled, but then revive his Blade and become an Edgedancer. Then he can return to Urithru as a fellow Knight Radiant and get back together with a more mentally healthy Shallan. 

That's what I want. What do you want to happen? 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I like the Han Solo type of character (who doesn't?) but I can see why Adolin wouldn't fit (fingers crossed for Mraize to be the dark Han Solo). I'd still like it if Adolin became the Stormlight Han though.

Otherwise, becoming a Radiant via Blade therapy is cool, and very likely to happen in OB (I think there is a WoB about Adolins arc in OB being awesome). I also want Adolins murder of Sadeas to be revealed. 

[Aleksiel]

Why do you make me choose between revived Blade and bromance with Kaladin, I want both  

[Calderis he/him]

2 minutes ago, Aleksiel said:

Why do you make me choose between revived Blade and bromance with Kaladin, I want both  

It says click all that apply

[Aleksiel]

Just now, Calderis said:

It says click all that apply

Ah, true. Thanks! 

[Andy92]

I picked 3 options. The Han Solo type character that becomes close friends with Kaladin; dies in a heroic way sometime in the series defending someone he loves. 

[maxal she/her]

I picked a few, but I really do not read Adolin as a Han Solo, so I definitely did not pick this one.

[Siaun Sanche she/her]

I see Adolin as an exile by the end of Oathbringer. I don't know where he goes from there, but I think he's set up for a fall.

[+eveorjoy she/her]

13 minutes ago, maxal said:

I picked a few, but I really do not read Adolin as a Han Solo, so I definitely did not pick this one.

So you want him to be a KR @maxal? 

[Dreamstorm]

Kaldolin  I'm taking beasties to mean romance 

[maxal she/her]

39 minutes ago, eveorjoy said:

So you want him to be a KR @maxal? 

Preferably yes, but not necessarily. See from my perspective, the story has to justify why Adolin should not become a KR more than the opposite. Providing he does not become a KR, then the story has to find a way to make him grow without confining him into a repetitive role where he only re-executes what he has been executing since the first two books. It isn't an impossible task and it may be it will yield a better story, I do not know I am not the author, but from my perspective as a reader I find many narrative issues with this trajectory. 

I also do not get the comparison with Han Solo. Do not get me wrong, I love Han Solo, he was my favorite original Star Wars character, hands down, but he and Adolin are very different except in the fact they are both powerless. Han Solo is a rogue, a thief, a scoundrel whom has fought for his best personal interest more often than not and whom would break every single law as long as it gets him what he wants. It is only towards the end of A New Hope he takes a chance and decides to fight for something bigger than himself, something more important and he grows as a character. On the reverse, Adolin has been fighting for bigger then himself causes all his life. He never fought for his best interests, he never thought of his best interests as being important. Therefore while Han Solo benefited from joining force with the Rebellion by growing as a person, I just do not see the same happening for Adolin. He can't have the same growth because he is already fighting for the Radiant. Worst, he worships them and is in total awe of them. From this point an onward, the only changes I see happening with his character is either he grows into a Radiant, he dies, he just remains the same (so where's the growth?) or he completely disengage himself from the fight and becomes a loner in the wild refusing to embrace any cause, refusing to be bothered.

So it isn't so much I think Adolin needs to become a Radiant, it is more a matter of myself not seeing what interesting growth or path his character could get without it.

[+eveorjoy she/her]

@maxal

I agree that his personality is not like Han Solo's. I did say Batman as well and Han Solo and Bruce Wayne are nothing alike. That choice is asking if you want Adolin to stay the normal one among the magic users who can fight on their level because he is just that good. Black Widow from the Avengers and Perrin and Matrim from the Wheel of Time series could also be examples of trope.

However, I agree, unless he becomes a radiant, I don't see how his story progresses. Brandon could surprise me, but it would have to be one heck of a surprise. Adolin has always been a foil to one of the other characters. For Dalinar he was there to point out where Dalinar could be wrong. For Shallan, he is a tie to the Kholin family. They are cute together, but that was his main purpose with Shallan. Finally, with Kaladin he was someone who could be a friendly revival and yet another lightteyes who proved people with his eye color were not all corrupt jerks. But Adolin has never really had an arc that wasn't tied to someone else, except when he killed Sadeas. I think the only way he will stay relevant in this new world of thunderclasts and voidbinders is for him to become a radiant.

Also, I will be annoyed if all the hints of Adolin becoming a radiant lead to nothing.  

I think it will happen one of two ways.

1. He revives his shardblade,though Brandon will need to have a good explanation on how this is possible. Everything we learned in WoR about shardblades and some WOBs have lead me to believe this is unlikely. It is the method I hope for, but I will not be surprised if it does not happen.

2. Adolin is exiled and he gives his father his shardblade before he leaves. After he has broken the bond another spren comes along, who had been waiting for him to get rid of the blade. The only two characters with the Nale bond have had another shardblade at the same time. Renarin was bonded to Glys before he got his first shardblade. He was writing on the wall before Adolin won the blade, which suggests he already had some radiant ablitlies. The other is Dalinar and the stormfather was very reluctant to bond him and demanded he break the bond with his shardblade soon after. Adolin may have a spren waiting for him to let go of the dead blade so it can bond with him.  

[maxal she/her]

1 hour ago, eveorjoy said:

@maxal

I agree that his personality is not like Han Solo's. I did say Batman as well and Han Solo and Bruce Wayne are nothing alike. That choice is asking if you want Adolin to stay the normal one among the magic users who can fight on their level because he is just that good. Black Widow from the Avengers and Perrin and Matrim from the Wheel of Time series could also be examples of trope.

I love those characters, so really I have nothing against the powerless character, though I would argue neither Perrin nor Matrim truly are powerless... It is a very valid trope, I just don't think it works with Adolin's character, not how he was written so far.

1 hour ago, eveorjoy said:

However, I agree, unless he becomes a radiant, I don't see how his story progresses. Brandon could surprise me, but it would have to be one heck of a surprise. Adolin has always been a foil to one of the other characters. For Dalinar he was there to point out where Dalinar could be wrong. For Shallan, he is a tie to the Kholin family. They are cute together, but that was his main purpose with Shallan. Finally, with Kaladin he was someone who could be a friendly revival and yet another lightteyes who proved people with his eye color were not all corrupt jerks. But Adolin has never really had an arc that wasn't tied to someone else, except when he killed Sadeas. I think the only way he will stay relevant in this new world of thunderclasts and voidbinders is for him to become a radiant.

Also, I will be annoyed if all the hints of Adolin becoming a radiant lead to nothing.  

Yes, this has been the sore knot for me as I am stuck within the same impasse as you. I do not see Adolin's story progressing unless he becomes a Radiant, unless he earns his own story arc which exists for himself and not as mean to achieve something with the other character. This is exactly what I have been arguing for the past years: give Adolin a story arc, a purpose, a role in this story which isn't to be someone else's foil.

His character is within an odd position in the sense he has too many viewpoints and a too strong presence to be ignored or tossed away, but at the same time the story never told us why we are reading him in the first place. Him just keep on being everyone's foil will quickly make him redundant and useless. Why waste the narrative writing him if you aren't going to do anything with him?

I too do not want the hints to have been for nothing. I also think the story would need to justify why Adolin is not a Radiant more than why he is.

1 hour ago, eveorjoy said:

I think it will happen one of two ways.

1. He revives his shardblade,though Brandon will need to have a good explanation on how this is possible. Everything we learned in WoR about shardblades and some WOBs have lead me to believe this is unlikely. It is the method I hope for, but I will not be surprised if it does not happen.

2. Adolin is exiled and he gives his father his shardblade before he leaves. After he has broken the bond another spren comes along, who had been waiting for him to get rid of the blade. The only two characters with the Nale bond have had another shardblade at the same time. Renarin was bonded to Glys before he got his first shardblade. He was writing on the wall before Adolin won the blade, which suggests he already had some radiant ablitlies. The other is Dalinar and the stormfather was very reluctant to bond him and demanded he break the bond with his shardblade soon after. Adolin may have a spren waiting for him to let go of the dead blade so it can bond with him.  

1. It has always been my favorite.

2. I find it less interesting and slightly redundant within the existing narrative. We do not need another "traditional" Radiant within our viewpoints, let's make Adolin the "unusual one".

[+eveorjoy she/her]

50 minutes ago, maxal said:

Quote

I think it will happen one of two ways.

1. He revives his shardblade,though Brandon will need to have a good explanation on how this is possible. Everything we learned in WoR about shardblades and some WOBs have lead me to believe this is unlikely. It is the method I hope for, but I will not be surprised if it does not happen.

2. Adolin is exiled and he gives his father his shardblade before he leaves. After he has broken the bond another spren comes along, who had been waiting for him to get rid of the blade. The only two characters with the Nale bond have had another shardblade at the same time. Renarin was bonded to Glys before he got his first shardblade. He was writing on the wall before Adolin won the blade, which suggests he already had some radiant ablitlies. The other is Dalinar and the stormfather was very reluctant to bond him and demanded he break the bond with his shardblade soon after. Adolin may have a spren waiting for him to let go of the dead blade so it can bond with him.  

1. It has always been my favorite.

2. I find it less interesting and slightly redundant within the existing narrative. We do not need another "traditional" Radiant within our viewpoints, let's make Adolin the "unusual one".

Actually Roshar needs a plethora of traditional Radiants if it is to survive.

I share your preference. I'd like Adolin to bring his blade back to life and learn his or her name. It's just Shallan asked if such things were possible and Pattern said it was unlikely without the Radiant the spren originally bonded with. A WOB said waking up one of those blade would be agony for the spren. Their would not work right. Like a computer that has had it's hard drive ripped out. I think when the spren bond, they gain part of the mind and personality of their Radiant. Pattern says he is getting his sense of humor from Shallan. 

Now it is not impossible for Adolin to revive his blade, but considering this information it is highly improbable. My guess is the blade would need to be resist some how and then choose Adolin of it's own free will. This could be a problem because we know that blade is a cultivation spren from WOB again. Adolin might not be Edgedancer material. He is a bit more broadminded than Lift, so I don't know if he shares the Edgedancer temperament. Also, do we want Adolin as the second Edgedancer? Lift will be the main Edgedancer. She already has her own novella and another novel is coming in the back 5. Adolin would end up as Lift's foil, yet again. It might better if he draws a spren from an order we have not seen yet. Then Adolin could stand as the audience's representative of that order.

Adolin could be an Edgedancer, and it would be awesome if he restored his blade, but I want him to be of another order. 

Oh well, in the end I will be happy no matter what. I trust Brandon.

[Calderis he/him]

18 minutes ago, eveorjoy said:

Pattern said it was unlikely without the Radiant the spren originally bonded with

This has not ever been proposed as possible in the books. All of this comes from speculation and WoBs. 

18 minutes ago, eveorjoy said:

A WOB said waking up one of those blade would be agony for the spren. Their would not work right. Like a computer that has had it's hard drive ripped out.

I have to go search for this now. 

Edit: got it. Thanks @Extesian

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1107#2

Quote

JERICH ()

Is it possible then to reawaken a shard blade if that blade is wielded by someone who speaks the oaths of a Knights Radiant?

BRANDON SANDERSON ()

(Thinking)...Yes, but it would be extremely difficult. The spren in a shardblade are not trapped in a state of mid-transformation like the Elantrians. They are stuck in an agony cycle after having a significant portion of their consciousnesses ripped out of them. The Nahel bond is what allows Spren to think on material plane and that has been torn away. It would be like having a data jack installed and then having someone come up to your head and rip it out of your head.

This isn't talking about the revival process. It's talking about the state they're trapped in. 

To restore the bond is to restore the chunk of their mind that's been ripped out. 

awakening them would be freeing them from pain, not causing it. 

Edited October 1, 2017 by Calderis

[+eveorjoy she/her]

@Calderis

You are right, Pattern and Shallan are not talking about restoring shardblades in that scene, but they do discuss restoring killed spren. If I remember correctly, Pattern said his kind had tried to restore dead spren and then speculated it would be possible if their Radiants still lived, but for they had never been successful in restoring them. I don't have time to look it up now, but I believe they had this conversation at Dalinar's complex just after Shallan returned from the chasms.  

Thank you for looking up the WOB. Yes restoring them would free them from pain, but awaking them up to reset them so a new data jack could be installed would likely hurt.

Agree, I am mostly speculating. Still Brandon would need to give us new information on how restoring a blade would work. Fortunately this is coming Nov. 14th. 

This does not solve the issue as to whether or not Adolin could be an Edgedancer.

[Calderis he/him]

2 minutes ago, eveorjoy said:

Thank you for looking up the WOB. Yes restoring them would free them from pain, but awaking them up to reset them so a new data jack could be installed would likely hurt

I think the pain they feel is ceaseless in their broken state. 

Brandon's been pretty mum on topic, other than dropping just enough hints, including his "I want to let this one play out naturally," that I'm sure we'll see it at some point. 

[+eveorjoy she/her]

5 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I think the pain they feel is ceaseless in their broken state. 

Brandon's been pretty mum on topic, other than dropping just enough hints, including his "I want to let this one play out naturally," that I'm sure we'll see it at some point. 

If the pain is ceaseless then I hope they can restore all the blades.  But do they feel it when they aren't summoned? I know Syl said that they live a little only when they are summoned. I would think in an un-summoned state they wouldn't feel anything. There is no way to know for sure. 

[Elena she/her]

1 hour ago, eveorjoy said:

If the pain is ceaseless then I hope they can restore all the blades.  But do they feel it when they aren't summoned? I know Syl said that they live a little only when they are summoned. I would think in an un-summoned state they wouldn't feel anything. There is no way to know for sure. 

That's actually a very interesting point. Dalinar immediately post-oath only hears his blade scream after he summons it, and Renarin too seems to hear the screams only when he's actually holding the Blade.

Do we know where the dead Blade spren 'go' when they are dismissed?

[+eveorjoy she/her]

1 minute ago, Elena said:

That's actually a very interesting point. Dalinar immediately post-oath only hears his blade scream after he summons it, and Renarin too seems to hear the screams only when he's actually holding the Blade.

Do we know where the dead Blade spren 'go' when they are dismissed?

I don't know. I hope we find out in a month and a half.

[Elena she/her]

2 minutes ago, eveorjoy said:

I don't know. I hope we find out in a month and a half.

Adolin's revived Edgedancer spren is going to explain everything about it

[+eveorjoy she/her]

13 minutes ago, Elena said:

Adolin's revived Edgedancer spren is going to explain everything about it

If the spren even remembers. I think once it gets it mind back all it will remember from the time it was dead is pain if anything at all. Personally, I hope it just forgets all that and has fun teaching Adolin to slip and slide. 

[Samaldin he/him]

Personally i don´t care if he becomes a KR, but the thing i want to see the absolute most is Adolin revive his blade. I think he could be something between a Shardbearer and a KR and basicly just be a guy with a Sprenblade friend, as for how that could happen: Revive the blade by Nightwatcher, be cursed to not become a KR.

[Hischier]

I don't really want him to become a radiant. I think there's a really interesting story to tell about Adolin the way he is. He was always near the top of the food chain and finding himself surrounded by super-powered individuals all of which (so far) are either members of or closely tied to his family has to be a dramatic shift for him.  It also makes sense to give the reader's perspective. If most of the battle scenes going forward are from Kaladin's (and other Radiants) POV, our main view of the fighting will be from a character who is almost impossible to kill. It makes sense to give the readers a view from the trenches. In this case in the form of a skilled warrior who doesn't have super-powers.  Plus, BS can't just keep having people's stormlight run out every time he wants to up the tension (it's a very reasonable issue that the characters will likely continue to face, but you can only go back to that well so many times in crucial moments).  

Edited October 1, 2017 by Hischier

[ChazBolt]

I think he will end up Odium's champion. Dalinar even expresses something "familiar" about the champion in the vision.

 

He will be exiled for his crime, come back trying to make amends, see Shallan and Kaladin together and will go full Odium.