How do people feel about the number of Cosmere easter eggs in Stormlight?

[Hischier]

Brandon has mentioned he wants to keep Stormlight as a self-contained story. IMO that's the correct decision. When I pick up a book, I don't expect or want it to have 8 books of backstory to it.  Stormlight was the first book (outside his WoT books) that I read by BS. I didn't know at the time that the Cosmere was a thing.  Now that I do, I'm not sure how I feel about all of the crossover easter eggs.

If I were a casual reader, there's a lot of things I'd be expecting to be explained within the series that I don't see how they'll be reconciled without asking the reader to invest in other books (a certain masked lady, a weird sword, a Swordmaster in WoR, Hoid, some strange people chasing Hoid).  If it's kept to a minimum I'm ok with the occasional easter egg. However, to me that means explaining that scene at the end of WoR without BS saying "well, if you read this other book I wrote, you'll understand this" (I'm not sure what's allowed spoiler-wise so I hope it's obvious what I'm talking about).  If that item is going to play any kind of a role in the series (and really even if it doesn't) there needs to be some sort of in-world explanation as to what's going on with it.  

 To be clear, I think the Cosmere is a cool idea, but you should still be able to understand everything going on in the book you're reading without knowing it exists.  

[Ammanas]

As a Cosmere fan I love it and hope for more of them. I do know some Stormlight Archive only Sanderson fans that are clueless on some of the easter eggs and are a little annoyed when I try to explain it.

To make a long story short selfishly I am all for them (and want much more), but it might be the best for the fans, as a whole, if he cuts back on them a bit.

[Calderis he/him]

The majority in SA are throw away, and need no explanation. The others... I think will be explained satisfactorily for two reason. 

Hoid, as Wit, plays a larger role in SA than in any of the other books. As such, directing people to those books is not an explanation, but would at this point, to a casual reader, appear to be an SA tie in. Not the other way around. 

For Vasher and Nightblood, I'm fully confident that their presence will be fully explained, because they existed in SA first. Brandon wrote them into stormlight, and later wrote Warbreaker specifically to explore their backstory. They'd have existed as a part of Stormlight even if Warbreaker hadn't been written. 

Edited September 24, 2017 by Calderis

[Hischier]

11 minutes ago, Calderis said:

The majority in SA are throw away, and need no explanation. The others... I think will be explained satisfactorily for two reason. 

Hoid, as Wit, plays a larger role in SA than in any of the other books. As such, directing people to those books is not an explanation, but would at this point, to a casual reader, appear to be an SA tie in. Not the other way around. 

For Vasher and Nightblood, I'm fully confident that their presence will be fully explained, because they existed in SA first. Brandon wrote them into stormlight, and later wrote Warbreaker specifically to explore their backstory. They'd have existed as a part of Stormlight even if Warbreaker hadn't been written. 

That's good to know. That's the one that really bugs me (Well that and the mask-lady).  

[Siaun Sanche she/her]

I was a relatively new Sanderson reader when I was going through the Stormlight Archive for the first time, and I didn't find the Cosmere references distracting because I generally didn't recognize them as references. There were parts of WoR that I genuinely found confusing, particularly when it came to sorting out the various secret societies and who was in what and which shadowy agenda they were pushing, but none of that is Cosmere-specific. In general I think the Stormlight Archive books are for people who have confidence that Sanderson knows what he's doing, which he's said himself. To me the benefit of having read the first Mistborn trilogy before SA was that I had already seen Sanderson clarify mysteries in an appropriate and satisfying way, so I had faith that he'd do it again and didn't get impatient when I didn't immediately understand what was going on. I don't think you need Cosmere knowledge specifically.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I like the references, because I love the Cosmere. I can see how it would be too much for some people, but I guess that is how it will have to be. 

[Rogueshar]

Before I read Stormlight Archive, I had only read Elantris by Sanderson, and I knew about the vague concept of the Cosmere, just by researching a little about Brandon Sanderson before reading him. That being said, I wholly enjoyed WoK and WoR without knowing anything really. I got that Hoid was important because of what I had read prior and that he appeared in all the books, but the three men chasing him in Interlude one, I just assumed they were from that same fantasy world, Vasher, I didn't even know he was from a different book series when I read WoR, I just thought he was a really cool, really odd swordsman. It wasn't until I was reading Warbreaker and looking in the Coppermind that I realized they were the same character, Nightblood was a little bit easier to recognize once I began reading Warbreaker. Now that I've read all of his other books and I'm invested in the Cosmere I love all the easter eggs, I really enjoy trying to find them, but I never felt they took away from my first reading experience when I knew almost nothing about the other books.

[Andy92]

2 hours ago, Harry the Heir said:

I was a relatively new Sanderson reader when I was going through the Stormlight Archive for the first time, and I didn't find the Cosmere references distracting because I generally didn't recognize them as references.

Same for me. If you enjoyed the book while reading it and didn't realize it had easter eggs at the time, does it take away from the quality of the book once you realize there are? I don't think so. I just think it adds to the quality of re-reads. But to each their own. 

[kiapet]

I like the crossovers for the most part. In my case, they drove me to read/reread several other series which was really enjoyable, and I have relatives who don't know about any of the crossover stuff and still really loved the books. Imo that's easter eggs done well.

That being said, I am not at all happy about Nightblood. I've been trying to hold my judgement until I see how he's used in Oathbringer, but at this point I just don't see how a sword that behaves differently than a Shardblade or Honorblade (not a spren, no shapeshifting, the black smoke thing) yet can't be explained in the SA without explaining a different world's magic system won't completely blow up the self-contained plot.

[Andy92]

40 minutes ago, kiapet said:

That being said, I am not at all happy about Nightblood. I've been trying to hold my judgement until I see how he's used in Oathbringer, but at this point I just don't see how a sword that behaves differently than a Shardblade or Honorblade (not a spren, no shapeshifting, the black smoke thing) yet can't be explained in the SA without explaining a different world's magic system won't completely blow up the self-contained plot.

I could tend to agree with this only if Nightblood doesn't get a far explanation in this book (but I tend to think it will). You have to remember that Warbreaker was only written to better explain Zahel's backstory. I'd imagine the idea of Nightblood existed in the world of Roshar before Warbreaker was written, just as Zahel was.

If you're only a SA fan, you'd get the idea that you'll have to wait and read the next book to learn what the voice Szeth heard in his head was (that's what I assumed when I read WoR the first time). 

[+Wax he/him]

That’s his idea to each series be independent but tie into a grand arch still. That’s how he explains it in Arcanum Unbounded.

The forum does push up the worldhoppers into spotlight but I think it’s a matter of perspective.

I read warbreaker after WoR and still didn’t make the Vasher connection or figure out how Hoid was important in Warbreaker.

In the end, the worldhoppers are minor except for hoid and he will get his explanation in due course within SA.

[Guest Edonidd]

I hated the amount in WoR.  Mostly I was ok with it in WoK.  But i read the dedcription for Elantris and decided i wasnt interested, read the first 2 1/2 Mistborn books and HATED them.  Couldn't even force myself to finish the series.  Enjoyed Warbreaker as a whole, but hated lots of its parts.  And I wish I had never read BS's contribution to WoT I thought it was an absolute abomination.

 

So it's really a surprise to me (and probably everyone else) that I currently have Stormlight Archive in my top 3 series.  I absolutely love S.A..  I just feel like Cosmere stuff detracts from it.

[CaptainRyan he/him]

50 minutes ago, Edonidd said:

read the first 2 1/2 Mistborn books and HATED them.  Couldn't even force myself to finish the series

This is some of the most difficult words I have ever read. The first Mistborn trilogy, despite its faults, is one of my all-time favorite series because of how incredibly well-done the ending is. 

(Just a clarify, this is not criticism in any way @Edonidd. I obviously respect the idea that other people have different likes/dislikes haha)

[kiapet]

On 9/24/2017 at 11:22 PM, axcellence said:

In the end, the worldhoppers are minor except for hoid and he will get his explanation in due course within SA.

I actually really love how Hoid is done in SA. He fills one of my favorite archetypes, which is that of the Trickster god/mentor. He has mysterious, unexplained powers and knowledge, and that's part of the allure of his character. The thing that makes Wit a unique case is that there actually is an explanation for who and what he is and everything he knows, but not one we're likely to get in-series. Hoid will never need to be explained in SA, and that actually contributes to his impact on the story, but those readers who are never happy without an explanation for pretty much everything will get it in other media if they seek it out. Hoid is basically a microcosm of the Cosmere cosmology in that way, and it's wonderful.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

On 9/24/2017 at 10:57 AM, Hischier said:

There's a lot of things I'd be expecting to be explained within the series that I don't see how they'll be reconciled without asking the reader to invest in other books (a certain masked lady, a weird sword, a Swordmaster in WoR, Hoid, some strange people chasing Hoid).  If it's kept to a minimum I'm ok with the occasional easter egg. However, to me that means explaining that scene at the end of WoR without BS saying "well, if you read this other book I wrote, you'll understand this" (I'm not sure what's allowed spoiler-wise so I hope it's obvious what I'm talking about).  If that item is going to play any kind of a role in the series (and really even if it doesn't) there needs to be some sort of in-world explanation as to what's going on with it.

What explanation does Iyatil really require? She was never really more than an afterthought for me, so I don't know what the big deal is.

Nightblood can be "explained away" with half-truths: It was an attempt by scholarly people to create a Shardblade. The results were... unexpected, and deadly. Nalan feeds this story to Szeth, and he'll probably believe it.

• Nalan is not the type to lie, so an out of context truth is valid, and it should be accepted by the others without much reluctance.
• Szeth also has the physical object in front of him, and he knows it had to have been created somehow.
• Besides, how much do we know about Shardblades or Nightblood? Any explanation, flawed as they may be, will suffice until someone finds a problem with it, which the average reader(and in-world figure) isn't likely to do.

As mentioned, Warbreaker is Vasher's backstory, but not his first literary appearance. This makes Warbreaker his in-world origin story, but not his in-story origin world, per se, if you can follow my meaning.

Hoid is a bigger character in SA than anything else beyond Mistborn Era 4. As Calderis says, his appearance in the other stories is the real easter egg.

The people chasing Hoid requires almost no explanation. Have you even met Hoid? His character is a smart-mouthed, mischievous troublemaker who gets involved in important events. A third of the Cosmere has probably tried to hunt Hoid down at one point or another, for reasons both valid and petty.

On 9/24/2017 at 4:39 PM, kiapet said:

I just don't see how a sword that behaves differently than a Shardblade or Honorblade (not a spren, no shapeshifting, the black smoke thing) yet can't be explained in the SA without explaining a different world's magic system won't completely blow up the self-contained plot.

See bullet point 3 above. We forget that our level of knowledge exceeds that of characters in-world when it comes to some things. Navani would probably try to classify Jezrien's Honorblade as some type of Advanced Fabrial, since it is a mechanical way to access Surgebinding. She might not be right, but it's an explanation that she can make sense of.

Nightblood was an attempt to replicate Shardblades without fully understanding them.

• Brandon has likened Nightblood to a "robot Spren" at one point, and a proper KR would make a similar connection to a talking sword being "of a Spren." They'd be incorrect, but not necessarily inaccurate.
• Nightblood should grant .. something .. as a result of bonding with it, and the KR will liken that to the Nahel Bond, while Szeth/the Heralds will liken it to the Honorblades.
• Lack of Shapeshifting ability will draw comparisons to dead Shardblades, causing them to classify Nightblood as something in-between a Living Sprenblade and a Dead Shardblade. If/When someone properly revives a Dead Shardblade, that classification might change, but they will cross that bridge when they get to it. They might consider Nightblood as an attempt to revive a Shardblade without knowing how, labeling it a partial success of these "scholars."
• Draining the user's Stormlight reserve could be attributed to an unexpected consequence of trying to revive a deadblade.
  • Gems hold Stormlight. We put gems in Shardplate and it worked. We put gems on Shardblades and now they work. We did a thing to a Shardblade and now it needs to consume Stormlight in order to continue working. Seems legit. "Hey gancho, grab some spheres!"
  • It's not that big of a logical leap to think that Shardblades would drain Stormlight in order to be revived, especially since Shardplate consumes Stormlight in order to be repaired. If anything this revelation will actually hinder the proper revival of Shardblades, as Adents try to feed infused gemstones to deadblades. (Which is a rather amusing mental image)
• The blade controlling the wielder and the inexorable drive to "destroy evil" will be misconstrued by religious nutcases on all sides of the discussion.
  • Controlling the wielder will be blamed on Odium by the common people, and may lead to suspicion that Nahel Spren could do that to their KR(Recreance reasoning has to be discussed in-world eventually). People may even consider Nightblood as a Shardblade made by Odium, if not for the "destroy evil" thing. Perhaps a former KR had a Nahel Bond with an Odiumspren, and this is what become of it....
  • The drive to destroy evil will be taken as proof that the weapon is not of Odium(or at least used to try and prove it). It could lead to yet more misconstruing of Shardic Intents, as they try to give Honor the moral high ground.
  • Depending on what point in the story this is, Cultivation might be brought up as a potential source, as one needs to "destroy evil" in order to "cultivate a healthy society."
• Here's a Theory: The Honorblade Comparison, coupled with the Intent of Cultivation. An Honorblade made from the powers of both Shards, to be wielded by the Champion to vanquish Odium.
  • If people believe it to be of both Shards, then that will be used to explain away how much more powerful it is than even an Honorblade.
  • Being of Multiple Shards could also be used as a reasoning for why the "Stormlight" is black.

There are a great many ways to explain away the inconsistencies with Nightblood. You'll note that almost every explanation I provided is incomplete, and sometimes even a blatant lie. You will also notice that every explanation I provided makes sense in-world.

[Everstorm Entropy he/him]

I read the Stormlight Archive without any prior knowledge of the Cosmere (technically, I read the Mistborn trilogy years beforehand, but I had forgotten most of the little details and wasn't aware that the Cosmere connected it to Stormlight).  Not understanding some of the subtle references did not hamper my enjoyment of the stories I read.  Several other people I know, including my girlfriend, have gone through Stormlight as their first Sanderson books and are hooked.

I think it's a delicate balance.  The story needs to be self-contained, especially when the series itself is planned to be 10 books.  But, getting additional context and back story for having Cosmere knowledge can make the time investment a ton of fun for the fans.  As long as key story components and details aren't leaving casual readers scratching their heads (any more than they're already supposed to be scratching their heads), I think it'll be just fine.

[shadowwisp]

I wouldn't be surprised if the inclusion of Nightblood and Vasher in SA is one of the reasons why Brandon Sanderson made Warbreaker available for free on his website. 

[Calderis he/him]

38 minutes ago, shadowwisp said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the inclusion of Nightblood and Vasher in SA is one of the reasons why Brandon Sanderson made Warbreaker available for free on his website. 

I would. I highly doubt there will be anything required to read for SA that isn't SA. 

[Steeldancer he/him]

Here's the thing: the average reader reading the average book deals with a lot of suspension of disbelief. My first read of the cosmere had me entirely miss most of the smaller stuff simply because I had that suspension. I could skip over not understanding everything, and still love everything that I read. 

Now, once I discovered the cosmere, I began to realize that Brandon doesn't do things arbitrarily. You aren't expected to just accept things. This was a big realization for me. Suddenly I understood that there was so much more going on, and I realized just how much of a genius Brandon is. 

Me, I don't mind the cosmere stuff in SA. There really isn't too much, IMO, if you look at it outside of a "hardcore fan" perspective. 

Nightblood will be explained in Oathbringer (I read that somewhere). Vasher/Zahel too. Masked lady is specifically a SA character, even if she hails from outside. The focus is still on the story. It won't be a cosmere explosion until someone on screen starts explaining shards and adonalsium and what Hoid is actually doing. 

[menacekop]

Wow, this is a truly astonishing thing to hear that some readers are actually annoyed at the Cosmere tie-ins and eastereggs?!  That just feels so wrong.

Personally its my absolute favorite aspect of the books, of all his books really.  The fact that they are all part of a much much bigger picture, makes the whole thing feel more alive and exciting.  I hope we get more and more tie-ins and i pray that Sanderson becomes more bold in bringing the Cosmere books together as the Stormlight archive grows.

[Steeldancer he/him]

As long as SA isn't reliant on other series (besides warbreaker) to work, it's all good. 

[Nymeros]

On 9/24/2017 at 11:57 AM, Hischier said:

 

If I were a casual reader, there's a lot of things I'd be expecting to be explained within the series that I don't see how they'll be reconciled without asking the reader to invest in other books (a certain masked lady, a weird sword, a Swordmaster in WoR, Hoid, some strange people chasing Hoid).  If it's kept to a minimum I'm ok with the occasional easter egg.

If you were actually a casual reader, none of what you mentioned other than Hoid would distract you....and Hoid is meant to stick out as alien to the world

[Hischier]

31 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

If you were actually a casual reader, none of what you mentioned other than Hoid would distract you....and Hoid is meant to stick out as alien to the world

I never said it was distracting. 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

One easter egg which I am hyped to see explained is the Letter. It is written by Hoid and Frost, neither who are native to Roshar. Most of us are buying that Brandon can explain Hoid, but how will he go about working Frost into everything? And the other things that are name-dropped in there... Skai, Bavadin, Aona... that might be an unresolved mystery for non-Cosmere fans.

[Nymeros]

22 minutes ago, Hischier said:

I never said it was distracting. 

I know. What I meant is that if you were a casual reader, you wouldn't even recognize the 'easter eggs.' Zahel is just another old odd ardent (why would he be a shapeahifting alien?), Nightblood is just another spren blade (why wouldn't it be?), the 17th Shard is no different from the 100 other secret societies native to Roshar, yadda yadda, so on and so forth