[OB] A discussion of shardplate.

[Calderis he/him]

54 minutes ago, Emerald101 said:

I'm rather sure that shardplate is not a fabrial, for reasons already stated and also because of this WoB (source)

Shardplate didn't always have gems in it, and both kinds of fabrials we've encountered (old and new) are powered by gems.

Yeah. I think that the way it happened was that people were running around using Shardblades like big dangerous normal swords strapped to their backs, and Plate was this monstrously heavy decoration that looked cool because it was far too heavy for anyone to actually wear. 

Some arrogant Lighteyed jerk was all like "I'm important. My Shardblade needs bling so that people know I'm more important than they are." and accidentally bonds the blade. Suddenly everyone is bonding their blades via gem. 

Then some storming smart chull goes "wait a second..." pops some gems into his big Knight Radiant statue and the world changes again. 

I'm with @Steeldancer. It's Stormlight given a structured form. If it breaks, just feed more Stormlight in and it regrows.

[Daishi5]

9 hours ago, sprocket said:

Well the surge of transportation is a thing. 

Currently we know less about plate then we do blades, I'm sure there's a reason ancient plate behaves differently that we're going to learn soon. The thing is, if plate wasn't a fabrial, why does it behave so similarly to one? If it was a bunch of spren in solid form why does it need gems and stormlight to work? You end up with questions either way, but with what we have I think the fabrial angle is more likely partly due to occams razor. 

In the way of Kings Navani asks Dalinar twice about ancient fabrials.  He is sure that they are primitive and don't have fabrials.  He says the plate and blade seem like they don't belong, as if the heralds really did hand them down to man.  That makes it unlikely that they had the ability to produce only one very advanced fabrial type.

[Emerald101 he/him]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

Yeah. I think that the way it happened was that people were running around using Shardblades like big dangerous normal swords strapped to their backs, and Plate was this monstrously heavy decoration that looked cool because it was far too heavy for anyone to actually wear. 

Some arrogant Lighteyed jerk was all like "I'm important. My Shardblade needs bling so that people know I'm more important than they are." and accidentally bonds the blade. Suddenly everyone is bonding their blades via gem. 

Then some storming smart chull goes "wait a second..." pops some gems into his big Knight Radiant statue and the world changes again. 

I'm with @Steeldancer. It's Stormlight given a structured form. If it breaks, just feed more Stormlight in and it regrows.

Exactly. The things that remain to be explained are how It's formed, and how exactly it's bonded to the user. In my head I've got a glorious image of Kaladin saying another oath and bursting with stormlight which then sort of swirls back in and solidifies around him, forming shardplate.

[Dahak he/him]

12 hours ago, sprocket said:

Well the surge of transportation is a thing. 

Currently we know less about plate then we do blades, I'm sure there's a reason ancient plate behaves differently that we're going to learn soon. The thing is, if plate wasn't a fabrial, why does it behave so similarly to one? If it was a bunch of spren in solid form why does it need gems and stormlight to work? You end up with questions either way, but with what we have I think the fabrial angle is more likely partly due to occams razor. 

I thought the requiring Gems to work thing was a post Recreance thing like the gems needed to enable bonding to deadspren Shardblades.

PreRecreance the users could usually supply the Stormlight directly and the gem slots were presumable just a power reserve.

[Calderis he/him]

3 minutes ago, Dahak said:

PreRecreance the users could usually supply the Stormlight directly and the gem slots were presumable just a power reserve.

I don't think it originally had "gem slots" 

It easily reshapes itself to accommodate whatever is inside it. No need for a receptacle. 

[Dahak he/him]

2 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I don't think it originally had "gem slots" 

It easily reshapes itself to accommodate whatever is inside it. No need for a receptacle. 

We know the Radients did carry Large Gems around from the scene where Heb (or Dalinar) is healed after fighting the Midnight Essences. So it isn't unreasonable that thier armour had a few for emergencies.

[Calderis he/him]

5 minutes ago, Dahak said:

We know the Radients did carry Large Gems around from the scene where Heb (or Dalinar) is healed after fighting the Midnight Essences. So it isn't unreasonable that thier armour had a few for emergencies.

Those gems were attached to a ancient regrowth fabrial.

I don't think think it's impossible. It's ability to reshape itself means they could carry whatever they liked inside. 

I just meant that the gems were not a part of the plate originally. 

[sprocket]

7 hours ago, Rameuses said:

Dead shardblades act like fabrials too.

Except not really. A shardblade will cut like a shardblade with or without stormight or a gemstone.

The fact that the gemstones were added later does kinda punch a hole in the fabrial theory though. Still, they don't seem like the same thing as shardblades to me. I don't think they're entirely made up of spren or investiture either. I feel like an Honorblade would be closer to that, and shardplate is too different.    

[LavaBender15]

On 9/19/2017 at 5:59 PM, ChazBolt said:

From what we know of Plate, it grows on its own when fed stormlight and cant disappear like the Blades. I dont think it will just "appear". I think itll have to be forged into something and that will have it maintain its shape and will forever grow back to that form. 

From the way joints in shardplate are described it seems like it couldn't have been forged. The books mention repeatedly that the joints in plate are composed of incrementally smaller, joined sections so that there is no gap in the armor at all, but it still provides full range of motion, which no normal suit of plate armor could do. It's clear that even the mechanical design of shardplate is supernatural so it can't have been forged by human hands.

[ChazBolt]

21 minutes ago, LavaBender15 said:

From the way joints in shardplate are described it seems like it couldn't have been forged. The books mention repeatedly that the joints in plate are composed of incrementally smaller, joined sections so that there is no gap in the armor at all, but it still provides full range of motion, which no normal suit of plate armor could do. It's clear that even the mechanical design of shardplate is supernatural so it can't have been forged by human hands.

Yea. Since making my original statement ive been convinced that it couldnt have been forged. But now im starting to lean towards the windspren idea...need more information...

[Fulminato he/him]

20 hours ago, Calderis said:

Those gems were attached to a ancient regrowth fabrial.

I don't think think it's impossible. It's ability to reshape itself means they could carry whatever they liked inside. 

I just meant that the gems were not a part of the plate originally. 

in the 'purelake' vision a KR take his pouch from the belt before the battle, i think they held infuse sphere inside.

“Riverspren?” the knight asked, stepping up beside him. “It looked like a shadow,” Dalinar said. “Red eyes.”
“It’s here, then,” the knight said. “Sja-anat’s spy. Caeb, run to the checkpoint. The rest of you, keep watching. It won’t be able to go far without a carrier.” She yanked something off her belt, a small pouch.

WoR Chapter 4 "taker of secrets"

Edited September 24, 2017 by Fulminato

[lastofus]

First of all, I think shardplates are some super advanced fabrials. The reason that "important figures of the past" didn't have them was:

1. No time to create it for them. We are talking about a desolation that kill 9 out of 10 people alive. So how important is a king that just sits in his palace (Nohadon did fight anything?). And other important people (Heralds and KR) already had shardplates.
2. It used so much precious stormlight that were needed for other things like soulcasting food or healing.

 

Now a Knight can probably create a shardplate with their spren (contradicting what I already said). Either way, the thing is spren at this situation:

1. Can manage the amount of stormlight used by the plate and use it with greater effect. Something along the lines of what happens with honorblades,.
2. Can operate it in on of these ways.
   • Stop feeding stormlight to a piece to it disappears like what happened in the vision.
   • Move the stormlight to somewhere else and the same thing happens.
   • Or because of the control just make it not be
3. Can change its color to something else.

What happens is that basically is that the current shardplates don't have any spren operating them.

Edited September 26, 2017 by lastofus

[Steeldancer he/him]

1 minute ago, lastofus said:

First of all, I think shardplates are some super advanced fabrials. The reason that "important figures of the past" didn't have them was:

1. No time to create it for them. We are talking about a desolation that kill 9 out of 10 people alive. So how important is a king that just sits in his palace (Nohadon did fight anything?). And other important people (Heralds and KR) already had shardplates.
2. It used so much precious stormlight that were needed for other things like soulcasting food or healing.

 

Now a Knight can probably create a shardplate with their spren. The thing is spren at this situation:

1. Can manage the amount of stormlight used by the plate and use it with greater effect. Something along the lines of what happens with honorblades,.
2. Can operate it in on of these ways.
   • Stop feeding stormlight to a piece to it disappears like what happened in the vision.
   • Move the stormlight to somewhere else and the same thing happens.
   • Or because of the control just make it not be
3. Can change its color to something else.

What happens is that basically is that the current shardplates don't have any spren operating them.

...you did catch the whole thing about them not originally having gems right?

[lastofus]

5 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

...you did catch the whole thing about them not originally having gems right?

Hmm, I had written my thoughts in advance, didn't read the other theories. But I stand by my second argument.

Even if they're not fabrials, they didn't really need spren. It's just a bonus.

 

EDIT: Plus they still could be fabrials and with my 2nd argument they need a huge amount of stormlight for only one piece. That would be the reason why they need multiple gems attached to them. And spren mitigate most of them.

Edited September 26, 2017 by lastofus