[OB] A discussion of shardplate.

[Steeldancer he/him]

There are 2 theories: it's either made of stormlight or spren. Me? I'm inclined to say it's stormlight. Because... you feed light to it? And then the light turns into whatever shardplate actually is. It would also explain how KR keep their storm light handy: no need for gems when your armor is MADE OF STORM LIGHT. 

The spren theory is nice too, but I'm not sure it's quite as plausable. The reason I put it here is due to the whole "spren kid" thing. I don't think it's Syl hinting at shardplate. Also, I feel like there should have been windspren in the WoK when Dalinar had the vision of the Windrunner and the Stonewarden. He dismissed parts of his plate, and there were no spren of any kind to speak of. 

Another idea is that it is somehow a hybrid, stormlight with little windspren inside. But... all shardplate looks the same (as in there aren't 10 colors of shardplate). It's all grey (or silvery in the visions). 

I'm hoping we'll see shardplate by the end of the book! Then we'll get some answers. 

[+ElephantEarwax he/him]

Hmm, But the spren could just be invisible.

[ChazBolt]

Im liking the theory of it being stormlight, because it goes along with the "Investiture solid form = metal" thing, and it makes sense that the Blade would be a spren but not the Plate because the Plate still needs to feed off of stormlight to work while the blade does not because it is a full blown spren and is the source of its own Investiture. 

The question becomes how does one condense stormlight into metal that can forged into Plate?

[Steeldancer he/him]

1 minute ago, ChazBolt said:

Im liking the theory of it being stormlight, because it goes along with the "Investiture solid form = metal" thing, and it makes sense that the Blade would be a spren but not the Plate because the Plate still needs to feed off of stormlight to work while the blade does not because it is a full blown spren and is the source of its own Investiture. 

The question becomes how does one condense stormlight into metal that can forged into Plate?

I'm not sure it's forged. I think it just kind of appears, like in the flashback. it'll probably appear in some dramatic moment. 

2 minutes ago, ElephantEarwax said:

Hmm, But the spren could just be invisible.

Occams razor. The simplest explanation is often the best. If it was windspren, windspren are usually visible. 

[ChazBolt]

1 minute ago, Steeldancer said:

I'm not sure it's forged. I think it just kind of appears, like in the flashback. it'll probably appear in some dramatic moment. 

From what we know of Plate, it grows on its own when fed stormlight and cant disappear like the Blades. I dont think it will just "appear". I think itll have to be forged into something and that will have it maintain its shape and will forever grow back to that form. 

[Pammie]

Not to mention that if shardplate is made up of dead spren, then live spren like Syl, should hate it just as much, or more, than shardblades. But the emphasis is only ever on Blades. Plus, you don't bond with shardplate, it just takes a while to get used to. 

[Calderis he/him]

5 minutes ago, ChazBolt said:

From what we know of Plate, it grows on its own when fed stormlight and cant disappear like the Blades. I dont think it will just "appear". I think itll have to be forged into something and that will have it maintain its shape and will forever grow back to that form. 

If it is a forged material, and not just something that materializes, how did the Radiants in Dalinar's first vision dismiss and resummon it? 

It disappeared and reappeared (the helm only) without ever being removed or held. 

This doesn't seem like it was forged. 

[Watchcry he/him]

I took the discussion between Kaladin and Syl about her being made and her having kids was meant for us to understand that Syl is going to create sentience/order out of windspren. They will work as plate under her direction as she is mentally linked to Kaladin. 

[+ElephantEarwax he/him]

1 hour ago, Watchcry said:

I took the discussion between Kaladin and Syl about her being made and her having kids was meant for us to understand that Syl is going to create sentience/order out of windspren. They will work as plate under her direction as she is mentally linked to Kaladin. 

Like Syl having squires?

[Watchcry he/him]

Kind of. Yes. Bringing some windspren to sentience to join the team under her command. 

[Edvarin he/him]

It makes sense. The Bond was never one sided. Syl mainly seems to understand and remember more. Plus becoming a Shardblade is probably the spren side of the Bond. If Shardplate is another form, the Sprensquire ability, then I'm excited to see what else spren gain from the Bond.

[Yata he/him]

8 hours ago, Pammie said:

Not to mention that if shardplate is made up of dead spren, then live spren like Syl, should hate it just as much, or more, than shardblades. But the emphasis is only ever on Blades. Plus, you don't bond with shardplate, it just takes a while to get used to. 

The Shardblade doesn't have to be made of Deadspren. They could be really fine and alive in their Plate form...Once a Radiant Spren told them to configure in that way and their are keeping doing It.

[QuantumHarmonix he/him]

I have this nagging feeling that shardplate is going to wind up having something to do with Cultivation. Mainly due to how it can be regrenerated. I swear I remember a quote where they talk about needing to regrow a broken set, but I'm not having any luck finding it during lunch.

[Sliverofnone]

20 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

There are 2 theories: it's either made of stormlight or spren. Me? I'm inclined to say it's stormlight. Because... you feed light to it? And then the light turns into whatever shardplate actually is. It would also explain how KR keep their storm light handy: no need for gems when your armor is MADE OF STORM LIGHT. 

I think that stormlight makes more sense than spren, but I have a question. In WoR, the helm Kaladin as a makeshift gauntlet uses up all of his stormlight he is holding by being in contact with him, we also know that the KR wore plate and used surges simultaneously. Do the KR power the armor by their ability to use stormlight or is the armor somehow crafted in a way that only the KR can draw stormlight from it, but only by the individual knight so it does not drain their stormlight?

[Mulk he/him]

When Kaladin was using it, he was using it to block and absorb shardblade hits, so the piece he is using is taking a lot of damage. I would assume it is feeding on stormlight from Kaladin in the same way it does from gemstones in order to regenerate/maintain itself.  I would theorize that this is part of the reason the shardplate has gemstones with stormlight in them - so that their primary resource for maintenance and regrowth is internal to itself.  It would then move to feeding on any other stormlight that is in contact with it.

[Fulminato he/him]

22 minutes ago, Mulk said:

When Kaladin was using it, he was using it to block and absorb shardblade hits, so the piece he is using is taking a lot of damage. I would assume it is feeding on stormlight from Kaladin in the same way it does from gemstones in order to regenerate/maintain itself.  I would theorize that this is part of the reason the shardplate has gemstones with stormlight in them - so that their primary resource for maintenance and regrowth is internal to itself.  It would then move to feeding on any other stormlight that is in contact with it.

a shardplate section can withstand only a few shardblade blow before disintegrate. the gauntlet-helm was used to deflect the hit, so don't assorb the full blow, but kaladin hold two shardbearer, a normal plate section don't think can resist so long fight without broken for good.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Fulminato

[notsawerd]

Once plate is made or formed it'll have it's own spren that basically says "I am plate."  Remember everything has a spren.  The stormlight that feeds plate will make the plate into its spiritual ideal of what plate is.  I think that Radiant spren are capable of shaping raw investiture (stormlight) into making physical objects.  I am wonder what else they can make in addition to plate.  Maybe honorspren can make gravity and adhesion fabrials as well?  No one know how the ancient fabrials works after all just like they do not know how to make plate.

[Nymeros]

On 9/19/2017 at 5:44 PM, Steeldancer said:

But... all shardplate looks the same (as in there aren't 10 colors of shardplate). It's all grey (or silvery in the visions). 

 

Aren't shardblades all gray?

[The One Who Connects he/him]

On 9/19/2017 at 4:44 PM, Steeldancer said:

Another idea is that it is somehow a hybrid, stormlight with little windspren inside. But... all shardplate looks the same (as in there aren't 10 colors of shardplate). It's all grey (or silvery in the visions).

Remember the blue/amber glyphs glowing on the Shardplate in Dalinar's visions? Something exists that distinguishes the plate as "Windrunner" vs "Stoneward," and I'm not entirely sure that Plate can somehow tell what order its wearer is.

3 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

Aren't Shardblades all gray?

I believe they are(well, Szeth's was silvery, but he's a special case anyway)

[platnumkid]

Pattern is described as having garnet glyphs when shallan offers him to Kaladin in the Chasms.

[Steeldancer he/him]

9 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

Remember the blue/amber glyphs glowing on the Shardplate in Dalinar's visions? Something exists that distinguishes the plate as "Windrunner" vs "Stoneward," and I'm not entirely sure that Plate can somehow tell what order its wearer is.

I believe they are(well, Szeth's was silvery, but he's a special case anyway)

I mean the actual plate itself. Not the glowy stuff. That's obviously different. But the plate itself is silvery if it's alive. Still wondering how those glyphs form though. 

9 hours ago, platnumkid said:

Pattern is described as having garnet glyphs when shallan offers him to Kaladin in the Chasms.

He's a live blade. Big difference between alive and dead. 

[platnumkid]

17 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

I mean the actual plate itself. Not the glowy stuff. That's obviously different. But the plate itself is silvery if it's alive. Still wondering how those glyphs form though. 

He's a live blade. Big difference between alive and dead. 

Thats my point.  Live blade, glowing glyphs in the colour association with their order, dead blade looks like metal (magnificent awe inspiring metal).  Plate in visions on Radiants has glowing glyphs and distinct colours per order, all know shardplate just looks slate grey when not painted.

Radiants could always dismiss their blades and seemingly portions of armour.  Post recreance blade and plate could no longer be dismissed, by a lucky accident people managed to learn to sort of bond blades.

[Calderis he/him]

The "spren plate" idea has always bothered me. Plate doesn't scream when a Radiant touches it, and it's not detested by the Spren in the way blades are. Add in this "spren children" idea to it, and it just makes it worse to me. 

Why would the bonded spren be perfectly alright with someone wearing plate if it's more spren corpses? 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Calderis

[Yata he/him]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

The "spren plate" idea has always bothered me. Plate doesn't scream when a Radiant touches it, and it's not detested by the Spren in the way blades are. Add in this "spren children" idea to it, and it just makes it worse to me. 

Why would the bonded spren be perfectly alright with someone wearing plate if it's more spren corpses? 

I don't like the Spren Plate theory but regardless just because the Radiant Spren is killed in the Oathbreaking, the lesser Spren could simply be there ready to keep their work. They are not dead or harmed, they are just there because the Radiant spren asked them and they mantains that configuration without further commands.

It's not too different from a Fabrial, the Spren is not harmed or tortured...The Spren goes in the gemstone and it find his new condition perfectly normal.

Again, I don't like the Spren Plate's theory too much, but it's plausible

[Calderis he/him]

10 minutes ago, Yata said:

I don't like the Spren Plate theory but regardless just because the Radiant Spren is killed in the Oathbreaking, the lesser Spren could simply be there ready to keep their work. They are not dead or harmed, they are just there because the Radiant spren asked them and they mantains that configuration without further commands.

It's not too different from a Fabrial, the Spren is not harmed or tortured...The Spren goes in the gemstone and it find his new condition perfectly normal.

Then why the color change from silver to Grey? Why the loss of the color and glyphs? Something has definitely changed state between the old plate and new. If it were made from spren, and still just... Continuing on, it's functionality shouldn't have changed either.