Different types of Aviar

[King Cole he/him]

I know that there is an Aviar that acts similarly as a coppercloud. But I didn't catch any of the other Aviar abilities are. Do we know them?

[Kalleth he/him]

There's the aviar that allows Sixth (Or Dusk, as he's properly referred to) to see warning visions of dangers that could be lethal to him. Due to the brevity of the story, we only ever find out the natural abilities of two aviar. The coppercloud and visions seem to be quite powerful all on their own, however I'd wager that Sixth's dismay at the potential extinction of the Aviar leaves more to be discovered. Don't know if Brandon will be writing any more fiction in this setting for a while, however what we do have is certainly intriguing.

As a side-note, it would seem to be indicated at least from what we know that possibly the Aviar's investiture acts solely within the Cognitive realm, and not the physical, because both abilities relate to mental shielding, and warding of a sort. Until we have canon proof of varieties of aviar that can affect the physical realm with their investiture, I'd say it's fair to presume that this kind of investiture only acts on the mind. Which could make an aviar a powerful companion for a worldhopper, despite our knowledge that this story takes place the furthest along in the Cosmere timeline. 

Honestly, Sixth of the Dusk has nowhere near enough actual words for us to get any solid answers on the impact of the story on the Cosmere itself. I don't even know if the aviar's abilities are even a result of investiture coming from Adonalsium in origin. I think Brandon might've mentioned that some of his stories happen on worlds without shards, but that they might still have magic systems of their own. Based on the end of Sixth of the Dusk, it's also possible that- 

Spoiler

The aviar could just have evolved their mental abilities, given the special relationship (maybe symbiotic?) that they have with the trees on Patji. I wouldn't put it past Brandon to write in something that appears to be a magic system, but which is actually just a highly evolved biological trait. Even the predicting death ability could be explained away as a heightened awareness that is interpreted in Sixth's perception as seeing his corpse. It's really kind of hard to parse, seeing how much information and yet how little, that Brandon squeezes into the story's ending.

 

[Oversleep]

1 hour ago, Kalleth said:

I wouldn't put it past Brandon to write in something that appears to be a magic system, but which is actually just a highly evolved biological trait

In Cosmere there may be no difference - a highly evolved biological trait could be using Investiture. In the Postscriptum of Sixth of the Dusk Brandon talks about Investiture symbiosis (of another kind; presumably because most of our examples of magical symbiosis are Roshar).

If you're looking for more examples of magical symbiosis, look no further than the Roshar system. Roshar itself has countless examples of animal symbiosis with spren (like greatshells or skyeels); Ashyn has bacteria that grant the sick magical powers.

Or Taldain, where lichen uses Investiture in its life cycle.

[Nathrangking he/him]

Sak was an unusual case of a mainland chick forming a symbiotic bond with the parasites on Patji. However, based on what has been seen thus far the CR is where Aviar magic is in play.

[Calderis he/him]

6 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

Sak was an unusual case of a mainland chick forming a symbiotic bond with the parasites on Patji. However, based on what has been seen thus far the CR is where Aviar magic is in play.

Eh, we just don't know enough. Sak's ability could be Cognitive, but it's similarity to Atium shadows implies a spiritual nature. 

Without more information, we can't do more than speculate. 

[Nathrangking he/him]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

Eh, we just don't know enough. Sak's ability could be Cognitive, but it's similarity to Atium shadows implies a spiritual nature. 

Without more information, we can't do more than speculate. 

I agree I made my comment only as a basis of speculation based on what we know currently. Though now that you mention it the similarity to atium does perhaps speak to a matter of connection and the spiritual realm.

[Windrunner he/him]

It's confirmed that another type of Aviar somehow aids in navigation.

[Oversleep]

I just want to point out something interesting - the worms are all the same, but the abilities granted by Aviars vary. When Dusk took a new bird and made it Aviar, it granted previously unknown ability.

Was it mentioned in the text or do we have a WoB that the ability is tied to the species of the bird?

[Calderis he/him]

30 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

I just want to point out something interesting - the worms are all the same, but the abilities granted by Aviars vary. When Dusk took a new bird and made it Aviar, it granted previously unknown ability.

Was it mentioned in the text or do we have a WoB that the ability is tied to the species of the bird?

Considering Sak, does it need to be explicitly stated? A non island species of bird bestowed a different power than any of the native species. 

Do we have any reason to question the species = power correlation? Considering they literally raise Aviar to sell for their abilities, it seems like they must be tied to the birds physiology or genetics somehow. 

[Oversleep]

3 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Considering Sak, does it need to be explicitly stated? A non island species of bird bestowed a different power than any of the native species. 

Do we have any reason to question the species = power correlation? Considering they literally raise Aviar to sell for their abilities, it seems like they must be tied to the birds physiology or genetics somehow. 

That's what I assume but I'm not sure whether my assumption is grounded...

[King Cole he/him]

It seems like the worms provide the investiture and then the bird shapes it. I wonder if it is bird specific or you could have a cat with powers 

[Shadowmancer he/him]

@King Cole I think that most of the animals on First of the Sun are bird-like in nature,. The nightmaws and tuskrun seem to be able to sense mental signatures, while the Aviar can do something to avoid detection. Whether or not other animals can be granted this boon would most likely be dependent on whether they can support the parasites in a symbiotic relationship. The powers they grant might perhaps be related to the animal's role as predator, prey, scavenger, etc. It doesn't seem to work with humans, or else no human has tried it...

[Calderis he/him]

41 minutes ago, Shadowmancer said:

@King Cole I think that most of the animals on First of the Sun are bird-like in nature,. The nightmaws and tuskrun seem to be able to sense mental signatures, while the Aviar can do something to avoid detection. Whether or not other animals can be granted this boon would most likely be dependent on whether they can support the parasites in a symbiotic relationship. The powers they grant might perhaps be related to the animal's role as predator, prey, scavenger, etc. It doesn't seem to work with humans, or else no human has tried it...

I'm looking and failing, but there's a WoB... It's been tried and it doesn't work. 

[+Extesian he/him]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

I'm looking and failing, but there's a WoB... It's been tried and it doesn't work. 

Could you be thinking of humans trying to eat the worms? From Boskone

Quote

Q: (hard to hear) In Sixth of the Dusk, the Aviar, they [ate all those worms]. What happens if someone else eats the worms on Patji? Do they get powers?
A: Has-- It doesn’t work for a human. They’ve tried that. But there might be something more there.

 

[Calderis he/him]

5 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Could you be thinking of humans trying to eat the worms? From Boskone

 

That's it. I forgot about the "something more there" line. Hmm

[Oversleep]

Also, where does the "grant human ability" comes from? I mean, does Sak see her own corpses and extends that ability to her human by showing him his corpses?

And how come they're able to do that (bond humans) in the first place? Would non-bird be able to do that too?

[Gigalemesh he/him]

@Kalleth you mentioned aviar possibly being of interest to worldhoppers and I think that is a very good point, the ones above definitely seem to want to get to the point where they can trade and it is most likely in order to obtain aviar. While the ones above aren't necessarily worldhoppers as we only know of them using spaceships, it does show that aviars are of interest to people from off world

[King Cole he/him]

2 hours ago, Gigalemesh said:

@Kalleth you mentioned aviar possibly being of interest to worldhoppers and I think that is a very good point, the ones above definitely seem to want to get to the point where they can trade and it is most likely in order to obtain aviar. While the ones above aren't necessarily worldhoppers as we only know of them using spaceships, it does show that aviars are of interest to people from off world

Technically they would be world-hoppers, but you have a good point

[Gigalemesh he/him]

@King Cole Heh yeah they are going between worlds so I suppose I should really call them world-hoppers, I've just been thinking of world-hoping specifically as using the cognitive realm to travel between worlds

[Yata he/him]

21 minutes ago, Gigalemesh said:

@King Cole Heh yeah they are going between worlds so I suppose I should really call them world-hoppers, I've just been thinking of world-hoping specifically as using the cognitive realm to travel between worlds

Understand your point but the "ufficial definition" of Worldhopper is "Someone who knows the existence of other worlds and visited at least one of them other than his own" (not exactly the right wording).

In this context the One Above fit the Worldhopper's definition regardless if they reach other planets through the Cognitive or the Physical

[Oversleep]

On 17.10.2017 at 2:11 PM, Yata said:

Understand your point but the "ufficial definition" of Worldhopper is "Someone who knows the existence of other worlds and visited at least one of them other than his own" (not exactly the right wording).

In this context the One Above fit the Worldhopper's definition regardless if they reach other planets through the Cognitive or the Physical

The current definition of a worldhopper was coined in times that nobody has ever thought of spaceships.

I mean... when you say "dinosaur", do you think of chickens?

[Yata he/him]

5 hours ago, Overstorm said:

The current definition of a worldhopper was coined in times that nobody has ever thought of spaceships.

I mean... when you say "dinosaur", do you think of chickens?

I know but I don't believe the definition Will change. 

I see the "Worldhopping" as destination before journey...It not matter how to arrive there.

For example there is a magic that in theory could shoot istantly to another Planet, I assume It use the spiritual rather than the Cognitive but It still Worldhopping to me

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 8/21/2017 at 9:41 AM, King Cole said:

I know that there is an Aviar that acts similarly as a coppercloud. But I didn't catch any of the other Aviar abilities are. Do we know them?

We have some negative evidence. All the hunters seem to carry only the "coppercloud" birds, although you can have multiple aviars. Why? They are right at the source.

[Scion of the Mists]

If I remember correctly, Dusk is the only one (or one of a very few) who knows you can bond multiple Aviar.  

[SkyRunner]

I believe the ones above are so interested in aviar because their investiture is not spiritually or cognitively bound to the source like a Spren  on Roshar, etc.