Overhyped Character

[StormblessDave]

Am I the only one who found her calling Wyndle a voidbringer really irritating? The number of times she said it made it worse Lmao

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Goatbringer said:

Probably won't get a lot of love for this opinion, but hey this is a thread that's centred around criticizing our favourite author's creations, so everyone is gonna get rubbed the wrong way once in a while I think. 

I don't like the Lopen all that much. I understand why he's a fan-favourite, but I just don't get the hype surrounding him. The 'what kind of radiant would Lopen be!' facebook discussions and stuff like that. I think he's an excellent wacky side character but I'd really just like him to stay like that. He should be like a Shakespearean clown: he's there, he runs through the scene causing good-natured chaos and then he leaves and the main characters continue their plot to kill the king/get married in secret/etc. I think he'd be great at filling this role, but not become a central character all on his own like everyone seems to want him to be. 

I had completely forgotten about Lopen, but yeah I agree he is up there. I personally never understood why he even is a fan's favorite: he hardly does anything within the story besides launching one-liners meant to be funny. I tend to find such characters more irritating than interesting. I have really no interest in reading Lopen's POV as either a squire or a minor KR which arguably we are going to get, I just rather it were a more serious character, not one which reads like a walking joke.

This being said, apart from my personal opinion on the character, I would say the number of posts on Lopen combined with the number of people who call up his name at every possible occasion does make him an over-hyped character. Let's be honest, Lopen is not becoming a major player and it probably wouldn't be a good idea if he were. Comical-relief characters tend to do poorly when given the spotlight, IMHO.

17 hours ago, Andy92 said:

@maxal @Ammanas I actually like the character a good bit. He's just the one that ends up coming up in every other thread around here.

I'll partake in the silence now. 

Yeah... This is true... There is a running theory on the Shard wanting any topic lingering for too long to end up talking about Adolin, no matter what the original subject was... It is just his character brings about so many various and interesting discussion, it's quite hard to never mention him. He's at the center of basically everything!

 

[Sparkrunner he/him]

@Stick@stick is a stick@StickOfDestiny@stickstickstick@sticky@I Am A Stick@I Am Stick@IAmAStick@I'm_a_Stick@I_am_NOT_fire

10 so far...

EDIT: WHOOPS Sorry about that I was just counting sticks, did not mean to post that!

Edited August 17, 2017 by Roadwalker

[StormyQueen she/her]

6 hours ago, StormblessDave said:

Am I the only one who found her calling Wyndle a voidbringer really irritating? The number of times she said it made it worse Lmao

Yeah... I've never liked Lift. She always just seemed so caught up in her own world, not caring about what was actually right, and calling Wyndle a voidbringer just shows that. For my personal tastes she is just too immature for me to enjoy her chapters, too much of a pre-teen I guess?

[Andy92]

59 minutes ago, StormyQueen said:

Yeah... I've never liked Lift. She always just seemed so caught up in her own world, not caring about what was actually right, and calling Wyndle a voidbringer just shows that. For my personal tastes she is just too immature for me to enjoy her chapters, too much of a pre-teen I guess?

Right, I think she's written pretty well for the age of the character, but that doesn't mean she's always enjoyable to read about. Although I do think Edgedancer began to show a side of her I could warm up to more. Her heart is in the right place, she's just young. 

[Sparkrunner he/him]

Spoiler

And will be unchanged...

EDGEDANCER SPOILERS

[Guest]

2 hours ago, StormyQueen said:

Yeah... I've never liked Lift. She always just seemed so caught up in her own world, not caring about what was actually right, and calling Wyndle a voidbringer just shows that. For my personal tastes she is just too immature for me to enjoy her chapters, too much of a pre-teen I guess?

The sentence I have highlighted does illustrate what I have a hard time enjoying when it comes to Lift's character and, unfortunately it does not seem to be a characteristic linked to age. In shorts, I tend to generally dislike characters acting on irrational impulse. Oh, I have no issues with emotional impulse (Adolin), but I typically don't enjoy too much characters acting without any guidance nor rule. Characters who just "go with the wind", who stumble from one place to the other without any cohesive plan, but somehow magically always seems to make things right. Mat in WoT stroke to me as such a character and I was my least favorite of the male leads. Wayne is another example, though brought to another level: I did not enjoy those endless chapters where he just does "the Wayne thing" and it somehow works.

It is thus I tend to prefer characters having a plan, having the ability to make decisions based on facts, to do things with an assumed purpose as opposed to characters just doing illogical things based on nothing at all, but somehow ends up working for no valid reason. Lift strikes to me as such a character and it seems probable she will remain the same as she ages. I thus really wonder how my relationship with her character will evolve. I liked her in Edgedancer, but I am still not convinced with her as a main protagonist.

[Andy92]

10 minutes ago, maxal said:

It is thus I tend to prefer characters having a plan, having the ability to make decisions based on facts, to do things with an assumed purpose as opposed to characters just doing illogical things based on nothing at all, but somehow ends up working for no valid reason. 

We definitely all know someone in real life who fits the latter definition though lol 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

We definitely all know someone in real life who fits the latter definition though lol 

Yes, but it does not mean I want to read a book from their perspective  Still, I enjoyed the novel, so Lift is a character I will need to give room to grow on me, despite my reluctance.

[FiveLate]

Seriously, the most overhyped character is clearly Hoid.  He never really does anything but make snide remarks in all the stories.  He could literally just be dropped from every story and there would be know change in them, yet he probably has more threads centered on him and more mentions in threads than anyone else in the Cosmere.

[+Extesian he/him]

I've always been baffled at the anti - Lift sentiment. I absolutely love her. Lift forever!!! Boooo to all the Lift haters. BOOOO.

 

[Ammanas]

@Extesian

Edited: Actually I was thinking about what I previously posted and got to thinking it might make people upset so I removed it just to be safe.

 

Edited August 18, 2017 by Ammanas

[Fatling he/him]

1 hour ago, FiveLate said:

Seriously, the most overhyped character is clearly Hoid.  He never really does anything but make snide remarks in all the stories.  He could literally just be dropped from every story and there would be know change in them, yet he probably has more threads centered on him and more mentions in threads than anyone else in the Cosmere.

That's true, in another thread I was talking about how I didn't know how he is ever supposed to become a major viewpoint character when all he does is make witty and mysterious remarks. But I don't know if I would say he's overhyped since he's apparently supposed to play such a major role in future books and such. But yeah, he gets waaaay more attention than he deserves for how little he has contributed to any of the stories so far.

[StormyQueen she/her]

2 hours ago, Andy92 said:

Right, I think she's written pretty well for the age of the character, but that doesn't mean she's always enjoyable to read about. Although I do think Edgedancer began to show a side of her I could warm up to more. Her heart is in the right place, she's just young. 

I have read Edgedancer, and while I do think her heart is in the right place, she is completely illogical at times (which in itself is fine, I really like Wayne after all), but I think it is her pre-teen attitude which really rubs me up the wrong way. Sure these kinds of people exist in real life, that doesn't mean I want to read about them all the time.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, StormyQueen said:

Yeah... I've never liked Lift. She always just seemed so caught up in her own world, not caring about what was actually right, and calling Wyndle a voidbringer just shows that. For my personal tastes she is just too immature for me to enjoy her chapters, too much of a pre-teen I guess?

She's a child for crying out loud. Children act like that. She maybe thirteen, but in her mind still is ten. It reflects in her actions.

Edited August 18, 2017 by SLNC

[geralt]

7 hours ago, FiveLate said:

Seriously, the most overhyped character is clearly Hoid.  He never really does anything but make snide remarks in all the stories.  He could literally just be dropped from every story and there would be know change in them, yet he probably has more threads centered on him and more mentions in threads than anyone else in the Cosmere.

His story about Fleet was fantastic, though

[Ciridae]

I really like that Hoid has been given a larger role in SA, he even has a chapter heading face like the heralds, right? The tiny povs and interactions don't tell us much about him, but I feel like we're supposed to get used to him being around more and playing a more active role. We're slowly but surely getting there. I actually really like that approach. The build up is huge, but I hope the payoff will be worth is. All in all I think the hype is warranted because we know there is so much behind the scenes we don't know about yet.

[StormyQueen she/her]

4 hours ago, SLNC said:

She's a child for crying out loud. Children act like that. She maybe thirteen, but in her mind still is ten. It reflects in her actions.

I think it is the fact that she acts childish that I don't like it. Sure, it may be justified because that is how old she is, but that still doesn't change the fact that I don't really enjoy reading more childish characters. It's just my personal preferences, but I can see why others like her so much.

[Stark he/him]

16 hours ago, maxal said:

There is a running theory on the Shard wanting any topic lingering for too long to end up talking about Adolin,

So we have a variant of Godwin's law for Adolin?  As any conversation on the 17th Shard goes on, the probability of Adolin being mentioned approaches 1/1?

 

I can't even counter that.

[Who Sharded?]

I love Hoid when he's talking to our main characters Kaladin, Dalinar, and Shallan.  Otherwise I would agree.

[Sparkrunner he/him]

WalDo

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I kind of like Lift. I don't adore her, but I like her, and I disagree with the fact that she lives in her own world. She is very brave, caring, and tries to help people. A lot. She tries to hide it, both from herself and others, but when it comes to, she is pretty selfless. 

Of course she sometimes acts immaturely, she is twelve (I think). And her whole disrespecting Wyndle is kind of understandable, given that she is used to independence. He is pretty controlling, and overly cautious, and then their personalities clash. She has no idea about what magic or cultivationspren are either, so her referring to it as Awesomeness and Voidbringers is understandable. The Voidbringer thing in particular kind of shows how normal people on Roshar calls everything they dont know Voidbringers, a bit like people in real life liked to blame stuff on demons or ghosts. 

Also, her threatening Wyndle with an excorsism was among the funniest things I've read in a Sanderson book. 

[Guest]

On 8/17/2017 at 9:46 PM, FiveLate said:

Seriously, the most overhyped character is clearly Hoid.  He never really does anything but make snide remarks in all the stories.  He could literally just be dropped from every story and there would be know change in them, yet he probably has more threads centered on him and more mentions in threads than anyone else in the Cosmere.

Is Hoid over over-hyped? Currently being over-rated, definitely, totally, yes, but over-hyped? The two threads, while similar, were different as an over-rated character is not the same as an over-hyped character. For me, an over-rated character is one who's importance within the existing story has been amplified above its real contribution while an over-hyped character is one readers hope for much more than the narrative calls for.

It is thus my favorite character, Adolin, is probably a tiny bit over-rated, but not over-hyped because his story ended up in strong promises. He is the most anticipated read going into the next book.

Jasnah and Renarin are two characters I consider to be both over-rated and over-hyped. Over-rated because really, they haven't done much within the narrative and over-hyped because they are unlikely to play a decisive role within the upcoming narrative too, nor to have many viewpoints nor a strong narrative.

Lift is definitely both, more so than the above because, well, she will have what, one, two interlude chapters? In how many chapters? That's quite a lot of hype for two chapters considering her character will be totally absent for the rest of the book, unlike someone like Adolin who will be present into other characters narrative.

Lopen certainly is one of the most over-rated and over-hyped character in the series. I would toss in Elhokar in there as well.

But Hoid? He is definitely over-rated and within the context of SA, he's probably over-hyped, but within the whole scope of the Cosmere? He is not. I guess it depends where we draw the boundaries. I'll admit he is a difficult case. I would say he is both, but he ought not too because of what we know.

3 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I kind of like Lift. I don't adore her, but I like her, and I disagree with the fact that she lives in her own world. She is very brave, caring, and tries to help people. A lot. She tries to hide it, both from herself and others, but when it comes to, she is pretty selfless. 

Of course she sometimes acts immaturely, she is twelve (I think). And her whole disrespecting Wyndle is kind of understandable, given that she is used to independence. He is pretty controlling, and overly cautious, and then their personalities clash. She has no idea about what magic or cultivationspren are either, so her referring to it as Awesomeness and Voidbringers is understandable. The Voidbringer thing in particular kind of shows how normal people on Roshar calls everything they dont know Voidbringers, a bit like people in real life liked to blame stuff on demons or ghosts. 

Also, her threatening Wyndle with an excorsism was among the funniest things I've read in a Sanderson book. 

Great post on Lift.

What bothers me with the character is the fact she does not seem to think before she acts, never. She just does stuff and it magically works because she is the protagonist. She makes me think of Wayne and he's one character I have had a hard time reading. I like Wayne, I dislike his viewpoints, for the most part. 

I wouldn't say she lives into her own world, but she does act incoherently.

[Andy92]

A friend of mine is reading The Way of Kings for the first time, and a couple days ago she told me "there's more to this Wit character than they're letting on." So while Hoid's cameos in books like Mistborn and Warbreaker tend to get a bit overblown, his Wit character is playing a more important role that even casual fans can pick up on. 

He becomes especially intriguing in the Epilogues of both books. The events he's involved with show a lot more about him than "just another cameo." 

Edited August 19, 2017 by Andy92

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

A friend of mine is reading The Way of Kings for the first time, and a couple days ago she told me "there's more to this Wit character than they're letting on." So while Hoid's cameos in books like Mistborn and Warbreaker tend to get a bit overblown, his Wit character is playing a more important role that even casual fans can pick up on. 

He becomes especially intriguing in the Epilogues of both books. The events he's involved with show a lot more about him than "just another cameo." 

I agree with this commentary. I too feel Hoid's contribution to Mistborn, Elantris and Warbreaker is really over-rated and over-hyped, but this isn't true for his contribution to SA. While I was reading WoK, I was a very casual reader and I did catch there was more to Wit then he lets on. It however hasn't panned out in a satisfying manner within WoR, IMHO, but we'll see in Oathbringer.

In a general manner, I dislike Hoid because he only cares about the Radiants, even if he is not on a cruise to find them, and he was purposelessly mean to Adolin. Adolin is basically the only one who actually genuinely appreciate him and yet he sees fit to plant the seed which is likely to destroy the one relationship he truly wants to succeed. Adolin deserved better even if he, oh tragedy, is not one of the Radiants.