Will Adolin be the Traitor?

[Skyline]

This is my first post after lurking for a while, I haven't seen this theory anywhere so I thought I would put it out there.

I see a clear theme of "10 - 1" reoccurring on Roshar. We see it in the Heralds with Taln being left to hold the Oathpact. We see it in the Highprinces with Dalinar being ostracized. We see it in Edgedancer with 1 pancake left "in memory". There are others I know of and likely more I don't.

There are 10 orders of Knights, following the theme means there is likely to be one that is somehow set apart from the others. There is also the well known line from the Diagram, "One is almost certainly a traitor to the others."

 

So here's the theory: We expect Adolin to be a Dustbringer, their surges are Abrasion and Division; both related to destruction. Words of Radiance likens them to Voidbringers and claims they "exercise anger in great prejudice." 

We also see at the end of WoR that Adolin is having a hard time fitting into this new world of Radiants, he's the only main character who is 'set apart' if you will, and we clearly see him "exercise anger in great prejudice". I posit that not only will the Dustrbingers be the traitors but that Adolin will actually turn out to be the Champion chosen by Odium himself.

 

Thoughts?

Edited August 5, 2017 by Skyline

[Calderis he/him]

Your not the first with this theory, and I'm sure you won't be the last. 

Out of the Orders we've seen, Adolin best fits Edgedancer oaths. I'm of the opinion he'll reawaken his Shardblade. 

Edgedancer spoilers 

Spoiler

The traitorous oder is clearly the Skybreakers. 

So, those are my opinions, now a question for you. 

What about that ending makes you think that Adolin's anger was in any way unjustified? Sadeas was untouchable by Alethi law, had killed thousands of men that Adolin was responsible for as a Kholin prince, many of whom he knew and cared for personally. Then Sadeas was threatening to continue and kill more. 

Why was his anger a sign of evil, and not a just response to an unjust legal system? 

[StormblessDave]

8 minutes ago, Skyline said:

There are 10 orders of Knights, following the theme means there is likely to be one that is somehow set apart from the others. There is also the well known line from the Diagram, "One is almost certainly a traitor to the others

I assume that refers to the bondsmiths.They only had 3 members and they were somewhat 'set apart'

[Sami she/her]

I'm left hoping that Adolin won't become a Radiant. It just seems so........ convenient if the whole Kholin family become Radiants, and I'm curious as to how he would deal with being the only one left (with the exception of Navini and Elhokar+wife) who is not a Radiant.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Sami

[Skyline]

I don't think his anger was unjustified or evil at all. But I do find an interesting parallel to Odium, whom Brandon has said is not evil. For a while I thought it just meant 'hate' but when I looked it up again it's actually "the state of being subjected to hatred as a result of a despicable act", as in hated not hating. So actions like that could easily lead to being hated which puts them closer to Odium, like I said, they are likened to Voidbringers. I'm actually not convinced right now that

Spoiler

the Skybreakers are traitors,

do you want to elaborate on that?. Nale seems ready for a change of tactics after the ending of Edgedancer.

Also, we already have an Edgedancer. Do you think Brandon is going to start doubling up main characters? I don't see him putting Adolin second after Lift.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Skyline

[StormblessDave]

5 minutes ago, Sami said:

I'm left hoping that Adolin won't become a Radiant. It just seems so........ convenient if the whole Kholin family become Radiants, and I'm curious as to how he would deal with being the only one left (with the exception of Navini and Elhokar's wife) who is not a Radiant.

So true, after Adolin and Elhokar theories, I wont be surprised to see navani radiancy theories popping up lol

[FrogKnight]

9 minutes ago, Sami said:

I'm left hoping that Adolin won't become a Radiant. It just seems so........ convenient if the whole Kholin family become Radiants, and I'm curious as to how he would deal with being the only one left (with the exception of Navini and Elhokar's wife) who is not a Radiant.

But out of all of the house Kholin, Adolin is the most likely person to be a Radiant. In the way of kings, Syl mentioned that the spren could be revived if their owners were still alive. I agree with the people who believe Adolin is the most likely person to be able to do this.

Also, theres the fact that Jasnah deployed an assassin and has killed many times (ghost bloods also add onto that) and is still a Radiant. Not all orders follow the honorable method of Bondsmiths/Windrunners. There are also orders like the skybreakers that follow blind justice and Elsecallers who are more practical.

[Calderis he/him]

17 minutes ago, Skyline said:

For a while I thought it just meant 'hate' but when I looked it up again it's actually "the state of being subjected to hatred as a result of a despicable act",

It's both actually. Brandon originally named the Shard hatred and changed it because he liked the word. Then there's this 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=977#81

Quote

MILLENNIUM

Some dictionaries list two meanings for the word "odium": the feeling of strong hatred, and that which provokes hatred from others. Do both of these apply to the Shard with that name?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes

As for the Spoilers 

Spoiler

We know from the in world book Words of Radiance that one order took part in a great subterfuge at the Recreance and did not take part in forswearing their oaths. 

The fact that Skybreakers exist as an order means they betrayed the others. 

They were also a police force within the Radiants which would set them apart. 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1107#4

 

Quote

 

JERICH ()

Are the Skybreakers kind of like the MPs of the Knights Radiant?

BRANDON SANDERSON ()

Hmm... (Thinking) ... Yes. That is actually a really good analogy.

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, StormblessDave said:

So true, after Adolin and Elhokar theories, I wont be surprised to see navani radiancy theories popping up lol

We know that knowing a Radiant makes it more likely you'll become a Radiant. We also know that the Orders numbered in the low thousands. Why is it surprising that so many would become Radiants during an active desolation?

Edit: @FrogKnight you may enjoy this thread I started. 

 

Edited August 5, 2017 by Calderis

[Sami she/her]

11 minutes ago, FrogKnight said:

But out of all of the house Kholin, Adolin is the most likely person to be a Radiant. In the way of kings, Syl mentioned that the spren could be revived if their owners were still alive. I agree with the people who believe Adolin is the most likely person to be able to do this.

Also, theres the fact that Jasnah deployed an assassin and has killed many times (ghost bloods also add onto that) and is still a Radiant. Not all orders follow the honorable method of Bondsmiths/Windrunners. There are also orders like the skybreakers that follow blind justice and Elsecallers who are more practical.

 There are already three Radiants in that family (three, if Shallan gets married to Adolin), as well as their most trusted bodyguard and his betrothed. The Kholins have heaps of them I mean come on Adolin too?

Edited August 5, 2017 by Sami

[FrogKnight]

3 minutes ago, Sami said:

My argument is that there are already three Radiants in that family (three, if Shallan gets married to Adolin), as well as their most trusted bodyguard. 

I dont think that the number of Radiants from one family really matters. Brandon has hinted that the shardblades can be revived and the only one who has treated a shardblade as a living entity (before the secret to shardblades is revealed at the end of WoR) is Adolin. If shardblades can be revived, then Adolin is definitely going to be a Radiant.

Edited August 5, 2017 by FrogKnight

[Calderis he/him]

13 minutes ago, Sami said:

 There are already three Radiants in that family (three, if Shallan gets married to Adolin), as well as their most trusted bodyguard. The Kholins have heaps of them I mean come on Adolin too?

So? The Spren want to stop the desolation too. Squires were Radiants in training. Spren are attracted to those near others with bonds. It makes sense within the narrative.

Edit: @Sami I didn't mean for that to come across as overly harsh. I just think that in the type of battle that's coming, normal soldiers are going to be nearly useless. 

The healing ability and surges of the Radiants was in full force in the previous desolations, when the Heralds were fueled directly by Honor, and the Orders numbered in the thousands... And 9 out of 10 people in the world still died. 

I think there need to be a lot of Radiants. 

Edited August 5, 2017 by Calderis

[aemetha he/him]

59 minutes ago, Skyline said:

There is also the well known line from the Diagram, "One is almost certainly a traitor to the others."

Why is it assumed that this refers to the radiants at all? That particular passage appears in the book of the 2nd desk drawer, the previous two passages of which discuss the unmade, and then goes on to say they need to discuss the needs of kingship.

Quote

There is one you will watch. Though all of them have some relevance to precognition, Moelach is one of the most powerful in this regard. His touch seeps into a soul as it breaks apart from the body, creating manifestations powered by the spark of death itself. But no, this is a distraction. Deviation. Kingship. We must discuss the nature of kingship.

—Paragraph 15

I think given the context the reference probably refers to rulers or the unmade. The heralds is a possibility and there are two strong contenders for that, Ishar who seems to have deceived Nale intentionally or otherwise, and Taln who didn't make the same choice as the other heralds (through no fault of his own) and can therefore be seen as a traitor to them, though not a traitor to the oathpact or Roshar.

[Watchcry he/him]

30 minutes ago, Sami said:

 There are already three Radiants in that family (three, if Shallan gets married to Adolin), as well as their most trusted bodyguard and his betrothed. The Kholins have heaps of them I mean come on Adolin too?

The female Knight Radiant that Dalinar spoke with in his vision said that one with his fighting capabilities would most certainly find a place among the radiants. I believe Adolin also fits the bill as well. 

[Calderis he/him]

And because I apparently feel like pimping my own threads tonight, here's one for you @aemetha. 

 

Edited August 5, 2017 by Calderis

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I doubt Adolin will be a traitor. I have seen @maxal talk about this before, and the arguments used are very sound. I am not able to say it as well as she would though, but I think that the whole thing narrows down to the fact that Adolin never would harm or betray his loved ones, since he is an incredibly loyal person, who strongly cares about other people. 

I also agree with @aemetha in that the passage about the traitor probably refers to Unmade or Heralds. Probably Heralds, to which (Edgedancer spoiler):

Spoiler

Ishar seems likely

 

Edited August 5, 2017 by Toaster Retribution

[maxal she/her]

12 hours ago, Skyline said:

So here's the theory: We expect Adolin to be a Dustbringer, their surges are Abrasion and Division; both related to destruction. Words of Radiance likens them to Voidbringers and claims they "exercise anger in great prejudice." 

We do not expect Adolin to be a Dustbringer. We expected him to become a Dustbringer, three years ago, back when his character was barely explored, back when we knew little of how the orders worked, back before we spent much time discussing it. It has to be understood the major reasons Adolin is often placed within the Dustbringers (usually by new comers to the fandom, no offense meant) are merely linked to him being a soldier and this order being thought of as one for great soldiers. Attributes to the order are "brave" and "obedient" which readers do associate with Adolin. He's a soldier, so of course he is brave: have we seen a cowardly soldier within SA so far? No. One of my arguments has always been: how is Adolin distinguishing himself by his bravery next to other characters? I usually go even farther by saying "bravery" doesn't imply "fights" nor "battles", it implies facing one's fears and Adolin might not fear death, but he fears rejection and that, he has never faced. His character is strongly defined by his fears and his urge to hide them.

Oathbringer spoiler

Spoiler

Just as Oathbringer will show us young Adolin was actually afraid of horses. Horses. Who would have thought? But quiet, young Adolin would never admit to anyone being afraid of the too-intelligent, too-peculiar, too-fast and too-hairy creatures. 

Hence, Adolin is not brave. He is afraid, but he avoids things which he fears as much as possible. "Obedient" is one readers will associate to Adolin because he follows his father's code despite not believing in it. I say the analogy is all wrong because Adolin's most defining moments, the times where his character truly shines, when he really comes together as his own person, are when he disobeys, are when he does what he thinks needs to be done despite all laws, rules and codes. Saving the prostitute and staying in prison for Kaladin are such moments. Killing Sadeas is another though different as, just with the duel with Salinor, Adolin lost control. He shows his vulnerability here and his sensitivity. To care implies being emphatic and emphatic people can often be overwhelmed by emotion, to the point where they can't control the overflow anymore.

In not so short, I would say, no we do not expect Adolin to become a Dustrbrinber. A great deal lot of time I spend in this fandom is dedicated towards trying to explain why.

For the rest, as others pointed out, Dustbringers aren't the order which betrayed and Adolin isn't a betrayer. One of his main qualities is loyalty.

11 hours ago, Skyline said:

I don't think his anger was unjustified or evil at all. But I do find an interesting parallel to Odium, whom Brandon has said is not evil. For a while I thought it just meant 'hate' but when I looked it up again it's actually "the state of being subjected to hatred as a result of a despicable act", as in hated not hating. So actions like that could easily lead to being hated which puts them closer to Odium, like I said, they are likened to Voidbringers. I'm actually not convinced right now that

  Reveal hidden contents

the Skybreakers are traitors,

do you want to elaborate on that?. Nale seems ready for a change of tactics after the ending of Edgedancer.

Also, we already have an Edgedancer. Do you think Brandon is going to start doubling up main characters? I don't see him putting Adolin second after Lift.

Hate is an emotion just the same as love is. Adolin is not a hateful individual. He does not hate without a reason. On a scale from one to ten of which character is the most hateful, I would put Moash first, then Kaladin, then Dalinar and Adolin a distant close to last. Why? He hates Sadeas. Of course he hates Sadeas! Wouldn't you hate the man responsible for having killed 6000 of your men? Wouldn't you hate the man trying to have your father assassinated? Your king? Trying to destroy your princedom? Being ready to kill whoever stands in between him and his path to the throne? Wouldn't you hate this individual?

Everything about Adolin's anger at Sadeas is justified and none of it is linked to Odium. Adolin rightfully hates Sadeas, but it does not make him a hateful individual. A hateful individual is one which would hate individuals without good reasons. Adolin is not this character.

11 hours ago, Calderis said:

So? The Spren want to stop the desolation too. Squires were Radiants in training. Spren are attracted to those near others with bonds. It makes sense within the narrative.

Edit: @Sami I didn't mean for that to come across as overly harsh. I just think that in the type of battle that's coming, normal soldiers are going to be nearly useless. 

The healing ability and surges of the Radiants was in full force in the previous desolations, when the Heralds were fueled directly by Honor, and the Orders numbered in the thousands... And 9 out of 10 people in the world still died. 

I think there need to be a lot of Radiants. 

I agree with @Calderis. Why does it bother so many readers if Adolin were to become a Radiant? Why does so many readers think the "normal dude" story arc is so attracting? Characters are interesting when they evolve, when they grow and having Adolin remain static, as many readers suggest (oh he's just fine as he is, he can just be the normal guy who fights next to Kaladin, who rescues Shallan, who is there in all battles, etc), would definitely undermined the spotlight he has gotten so far. I mean, static characters don't get viewpoints, especially not as many as Adolin. Boring side-kicks do not get viewpoints. 

Adolin is no such character, so why does it bother readers if he were to become a Radiant? @Calderis is right: normal soldiers will be useless against thunderclasts and whichever other creatures from hell the Desolation will spur forward. Normal Shardbearers will also be useless and this is exactly what WoR has shown us. Adolin the best Alethkar has to offer and he can't even land one blow against Szeth. This is a message: normal guys don't stand a chance. They need Radiants, many Radiants and fast. So yeah, we will start to see Radiants pop by the hundred. Being near all of them increases Adolin chances of being one to the point where if he doesn't become one, then Brandon will have to explain why.

8 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I doubt Adolin will be a traitor. I have seen @maxal talk about this before, and the arguments used are very sound. I am not able to say it as well as she would though, but I think that the whole thing narrows down to the fact that Adolin never would harm or betray his loved ones, since he is an incredibly loyal person, who strongly cares about other people. 

It usually goes along those lines. Adolin would never purposefully harm the ones he loves. He would never oppose his father, he would never war his father nor try to kill him. Him turning evil implies he would do those things, he would try to kill his own soldiers, he would oppose his princedom, he would place himself in a position where he is required to kill his family members.

I really don't get why readers even think this is an interesting and/or plausible story arc. We have so many characters who could realistically become traitors but not Adolin. Why always come back to Adolin? This is tiring.

Edited August 5, 2017 by maxal

[Contessa she/her]

I agree with @maxal, but I do think it will be interesting to see how Adolin deals with being the only non-Radiant in his friend-group, so to speak, before (probably) awakening his Blade (or perhaps bonding with a spren in the more generic fashion). I love Adolin's character, and in that respect a agree with a lot of what @maxal has to say. I think he'll be more in the spotlight in Oathbringer, because of his actions at the end of WoR, and because of his potential awakening of his Blade. But as far as Radiants go, at least the ones we have seen, I think we can say Adolin has suffered the least (except maybe his brother). Therefore, I believe there are many more trials to come for him, and, while I don't think he will end up being a Dustbringer, or turning to Odium, I do think he will struggle with having all the people around him suddenly being more OP that him, an I think it will put a strain on his character that will be interesting to see. 

[Steeldancer he/him]

Wasn't it confirmed that adolins blade is an edgedancer blade? If so, and he awakened his blade, why would he become a dustbringer? That doesn't add up for me. 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

10 minutes ago, Flash said:

Wasn't it confirmed that adolins blade is an edgedancer blade? If so, and he awakened his blade, why would he become a dustbringer? That doesn't add up for me. 

Those who believe in the Dustbringer theory probably doesn't think he will awaken his Blade. 

[Contessa she/her]

7 hours ago, Flash said:

Wasn't it confirmed that adolins blade is an edgedancer blade? If so, and he awakened his blade, why would he become a dustbringer? That doesn't add up for me. 

Yeah, if he awakened his Blade he would be an Edgedancer. The Dustbringer theory would take place if Adolin bonded with a spren without awakening his Blade. 

[maxal she/her]

On 8/5/2017 at 1:01 AM, Skyline said:

Also, we already have an Edgedancer. Do you think Brandon is going to start doubling up main characters? I don't see him putting Adolin second after Lift.

Something I glossed over yesterday, but I feel needs to be addressed. I have seen others say it: Adolin as an Edgedancer is redundant to Lift also being an Edgedancer. He will over-shadow her story arc and her progression and/or he can't be the second fiddle to Lift. I got the feeling a lot of people don't like the theory mostly for book structure reasons: had we not known Lift was getting a flashback book and a super important role, eventually, people might be more fine with it, but right now it seems as if Adolin would become a redundant knight.

My question is thus the following: what if Adolin actually makes a more interesting Edgedancer than Lift?

Bold one. Lift is the main protagonist, not Adolin. Lift is the character Brandon loves so much and can't stop writing about, not Adolin, but just what if he turns out showing us a more interesting progression than Lift?

Let's examine the first two oaths: "I will remember the forgotten" and "I will listen to the forgotten". Brilliant. Adorable. Little Lift risk her life to go back to help Gawx, a boy she thinks would be forgotten by all the second he fails to exit the palace, a boy having been nice to her, a boy she had a connection to, albeit a small one. Many readers love to praise Lift for doing so and sham Adolin for never having put his life in danger to rescue a meaningless individual, claiming the prostitute does not count because Adolin never endangered himself, the cost to himself was negligible. True. All true.

Moving onto the second oath, Lift genuinely listened to a beggar girl, taking the time to truly listen to what those she perceives as "the forgotten" have to say. Admirable. Adolin also listens, he's a great listener, but many readers will claim as long as he doesn't go down in the street to mingle with the beggars, he will never have the making of an Edgedancer.

Or is it?

I need to ask a question, how admirable is it truly Lift would risk her life for the one boy being nice to her, perhaps the only comrade she has (even if she doesn't seem to like him all that much)? How admirable is it she thinks of Gawx as a forgotten, a mere thieve to be forgotten if he fails? How admirable is it she listens to orphan children? To forgotten?

She is a forgotten. She is a thieve. She is a beggar. She is an orphan. So again, what great character progression is there in Lift saying the first two oaths? How great is it for her to learn how to care for other people just like her? To listen to other people just like her? Did this come at the end of a harsh lesson? Not really. These were merely her taking her nature as forgotten one step further and deciding she would care for others as well. Very nice of her, very benevolent, but the one thing she seems to have worked on hasn't been tied to her oaths.

In comparison, how admirable is it for a prince, a man standing at the very top of the food chain, to have the ability to look down and to care if a prostitute is being molested? Isn't it much more interesting to have someone like Adolin learn to trespass his upbringing, his birth right, everything society has taught him in order to look down and see, really see those who haven't been so fortunate in life? He is not a forgotten. He doesn't have any link towards the forgotten. To care demands more out of him then it demands out of Lift, it demands him to evolve much outside what we assumed he would be.

Thus what if having Prince Adolin become an Edgedancer actually turns out to be more exciting than having Orphan Lift become one?

Either way, I truly fail to see how each character's progression, being so wildly different, could ever overshadow each other and/or become redundant, especially since Lift will not be a prominent character before the back five while Adolin is a character now.

21 hours ago, Contessa said:

I agree with @maxal, but I do think it will be interesting to see how Adolin deals with being the only non-Radiant in his friend-group, so to speak, before (probably) awakening his Blade (or perhaps bonding with a spren in the more generic fashion). I love Adolin's character, and in that respect a agree with a lot of what @maxal has to say. I think he'll be more in the spotlight in Oathbringer, because of his actions at the end of WoR, and because of his potential awakening of his Blade. But as far as Radiants go, at least the ones we have seen, I think we can say Adolin has suffered the least (except maybe his brother). Therefore, I believe there are many more trials to come for him, and, while I don't think he will end up being a Dustbringer, or turning to Odium, I do think he will struggle with having all the people around him suddenly being more OP that him, an I think it will put a strain on his character that will be interesting to see. 

I don't think Adolin will become a Radiant, if he becomes a Radiant, within the first pages of Oathbringer or even throughout Oathbringer. Chances are his character will have ample time to reflect on how unworthy he is for not having been chosen, especially if a man he has little respect for, Elhokar, gets chosen too.

This being said, while I do agree the ending of WoR did promised a bigger role for Adolin within the upcoming book, Brandon has more or less this won't happen. Adolin is to remain a supporting character, one of importance, but we should not expect too much. I may be wrong, but huh, Brandon has never been very vocal about Adolin.

As for Adolin having suffered less, I would say this depends on what you consider suffering to be. If you consider suffering to be physical, such as torture, or emotional, such as abuse, then yes Adolin has had an easy life. I would however argue his life was not picture perfect: he is the lesser loved child of his family, he is the recipient of all expectations/obligations, a burden he cannot share with his brother, he is unable to form relationships with his peers. Of course, this isn't the same as "breaking down", but this is enough to think he might break down. Also, the fact he may not have suffered as much as others is not really meaningful: Adolin's life is not over. 

His trials are just starting.

[Calderis he/him]

@maxal the "but Lift is our Edgedancer" argument never made sense to me either. 

We've seen multiple truthwatcher. We've been told by Brandon we will see other Windrunners. There will be multiple members of the different orders. 

Lift may be our focus Edgedancer, but that doesn't mean others with smaller roles can't be one as well. 

[maxal she/her]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

@maxal the "but Lift is our Edgedancer" argument never made sense to me either. 

We've seen multiple truthwatcher. We've been told by Brandon we will see other Windrunners. There will be multiple members of the different orders. 

Lift may be our focus Edgedancer, but that doesn't mean others with smaller roles can't be one as well. 

I will be bolder. It doesn't mean Lift currently has a planned flashback book within the second half of SA she will be our focus character for this order (remember Brandon did say the two will not always be the same). Considering she already had a novel which pretty much tells us what we needed to know about her past, it may be Brandon will change his mind and give her flashback book to another character. Doubtful, but not improbable.

Lift already being an Edgedancer no where nears bars a heavily focused into the main narrative character such as Adolin to become one as well.

[shadowwisp]

Any one remember the back of the book for Way of Kings? I doubt Adolin will be the traitor, it will be either Szeth, Kaladin, Dalinor, or Shallan. 

From the back of the book for Way of Kings, the blurb talks about the surgeon, the assassin, the liar, and the highprince. It then says:

Quote

"One of them may redeem us. 

And one of them will destroy us."

Notice the wordplay, may vs will, just thought that was interesting. Also the back of the book blurbs have a great deal of significance now if you have read Edgedancer.

Anyways, I think it would be too convenient/obvious (plot wise) if Szeth was the one they were referring to. Therefore it will be Kaladin, Dalinor, or Shallan. It could be done accidentally by ignorance or intentionally by not being willing to make a sacrifice. ie: Kaladin is put in position where he has to choice between Syl's life or releasing Odium. How ironic would it be if the the oaths that created the Radiants, ends up being what destroys them. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by shadowwisp

[Calderis he/him]

@shadowwisp considering the significance we learned of those cover blurbs after Edgedancer though, that doesn't make them a traitor. It just means they may not understand the authors and cause their destruction without betraying anyone they actually know. 

If that group is as mistrusted as the hints we have in book imply... Their destruction may be viewed as a natural part of the Knights goals.