The Shin worship the sun

[+Extesian he/him]

I’ve tried to make this into a theory, but for now it’s just an observation, one I’ve never seen (though I’ll be surprised if it hasn’t been discussed before my time).

The Shin worship the sun as the God of Gods. Did we already know this?

 

Here are some quotes from WoR, Interlude 10

“Bright sunlight shone down to banish the shadows, which kept those screams to a minimum…He did not look up. He would not meet the gaze of the God of Gods…’Have I not remained faithful?’ Szeth shouted, finally looking up to face the sun…”Have I not obeyed, kept my oath? Have I not done as you demanded of me?”

 

Seems pretty unambiguous that either the Shin, or Szeth himself (and in my mind it’s almost definitely the Shin) worship the sun as the God of Gods. How that interplays with the holiness of stone, I’m not sure, except perhaps that they think that stone represents millennia of trapped sunlight?

 

What mainly baffles me is that I’ve never seen this mentioned before. If there’s a previous thread that discusses it I’d like to be directed that way. If it’s a new idea, I’ll be very surprised, but seems like it’s worth discussing!

[Calderis he/him]

I remember this passage and have never seen it discussed either. 

The only thing I can think to combine sun and stone is that if sunlight is holy, stone traps the heat of the sun... So maybe they believe that the soil in Shinovar was placed to keep them from treading on the stored essence of sunlight? 

It's a totally baseless shot in the dark, but have an upvote, because reasons.

Edit: and to clarify, I was referring to my guess as baseless. Not your direct from the text assertion. 

Edited July 4, 2017 by Calderis

[Krandacth]

My take on this has always been that the Shin religion (in the absence of Spren) developed much like it did among early Earth cultures, worshipping the spirits of the things around them that influence their lives (with a few quirks particular to Roshar and its history, like their obsession with Stone): think of the Native Americans, Australian Aborigines or Ancient Egyptians (particularly the last, regarding sun worship). Bear in mind that most religions had to start relatively recently on Roshar, as religions go. 4500 years is less time than the ancient Egyptian religion lasted, in its various forms.

The rest of Roshar could literally see spirits, and so revered them. The Spren being much more drawn to change, however, led not to the worship of objects, like the sun, but behaviours, like the cultivation of nature or the 'Glories of the Almighty'.

That was my interpretation, anyway :-) 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Maybe Cultivation/Honor took the appearance of a shining light on the sky once? And this is a leftover.

[Lightspine]

If I remember correctly, Szeth tells Darkness/Nin that his gods are the "spirits of the stones and the stars" - the sun in particular is perhaps worshipped as above all others, but all the other stars in the sky are also "gods". (wait... is this a connection the the eyes of Nalt?????????????)
My other thought is that this is somehow related to the sun of shadesmar (although that does nothing to explain why they worship all stars).

[CosmereQuestioner]

Maybe the shin are originally from Taldain, making their sun worship legit ;-)

[Crucible of Shards he/him]

Well, we know from Rysn's first interlude that farmers are high up in Shin society, and farmers are typically quite dependent on the sun. There could possibly be a connection there.

[Calderis he/him]

@Extesian while continuing my plodding reread, I came across this in I-9 "A Work of Art" 

Quote

He reached the wall and pressed himself against it. It was the time between the first two moons, the darkest period of night. The hateful hour, his people called it, for it was one of the only times when the gods did not watch men.

So it appears as though it's not just the sun, but more generally celestial bodies. So the moons are God's, and the Sun is the God of Gods. 

[+Extesian he/him]

 really does remind me of Trell/Nalt. Not that I think there's a connection, it's a classic worship system. 

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom he/him]

On 7/10/2017 at 11:15 PM, Extesian said:

 really does remind me of Trell/Nalt. Not that I think there's a connection, it's a classic worship system. 

Actually, here is a passage from WoR that would imply that the Shin (or at least Szeth) worship both the sun and the stars:

Quote

"Who are you?" Szeth asked.
"You spend this long obeying the precepts of your people and religion, yet you fail to recognize one of your gods?"
"My gods are the spirits of the stones," Szeth whispered. "The sun and the stars. Not men."

Word of Radiance, Chapter 88, Revised Edition (Paperback w/ alternate ending)

Emphasis mine.

As for Trell and Nalt, I have a suspicion that if Trell is in fact Bavadin, then that Nalt is also Bavadin. After all, we have this WoB:

Quote

This won't be relevant for a long while, but as a service to the community, let me say this: try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned. There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her.

Source

Emphasis mine.

What if Brandon is misleading us here. Google defines Pantheon as "all the gods of a people or religion collectively." So, technically for Trelagism, "every member" is just Trell and Nalt. So what if Bavadin created this religion around the Sun and the Stars as a means of setting up followers and fanatics around various planets. On Scadrial it's Trelagism. On Roshar it could be the Shin religion. I'm also fairly sure that there is a WoB somewhere about Bavadin appearing to people. If so, then that would mean that she would be able to set up these religions directly, which would explain why you would have two very similar religions on both Roshar and Scadrial. Might also be worth looking at the religion of the Pure lakers, as it sounded very similar. Though that might make sense if the Pure Lake is a perpendicularity, and thus you would have world-hopping based culture corruption going on. Maybe even by some Trelagists directly. And it is interesting how Bavadin's investiture is spread through the light that leaves Taldain's sun, which would explain why her religion would include respect for both the sun  and the stars (as Taldain's sun is a star to everyone else)

[Rasha]

I posted a theory a few months ago on the way the shun society was built:

Tldr: the heralds are the Shin's gods, because they brought eternal peace. 

 

What is consistent between your theory and mine, is that the sun is considered as the god of the gods (yeah it doesn't seems like it is consistent but just hear me out).

 

We know that there is a celestial body in roshar's sky for each herald, and that these bodies also gravitate around roshar's sun (cf Arcanum unbounded). And we know rosharians are able to see these celestial bodies in their sky. 

So if the heralds are the shins god, we also know they can (could, before honor's shattering) surge bind without stormlight, by drawing on honor to fuel their powers. Surge binding by a herald is likely to cause a whole more lot of Light emitted, because the power channeled is in more quantity than stormlight breathed out of a sphere.  To the shin, it might seem like the heralds get their powers from the sun, therefore making the sun the god of the gods. 

I am sorry if this post seems to dissemble, it is 4am and I am writing on my phone. I will be happy to develop more when I get access to my computer with a steady internet connection (soon I hope). 

[chruch013]

On 7/4/2017 at 9:29 PM, CosmereQuestioner said:

Maybe the shin are originally from Taldain, making their sun worship legit ;-)

This a major necro-bump, but during my read through of Oathbringer I would say the thirst that Szeth experiences at The Purelake would also very much support this hypothesis.